To think that people who say that school is not childcare are being disingenuous

[Notcontent]

There have been so many threads started by people struggling to work while schools are closed, and invariably there are posters who bang on about how “school is not childcare” etc and people just need to suck it up... there was another one today - about holiday clubs - with someone saying that “holiday clubs are a privilege”!

That makes me so mad. The reality is that children (and actually teenagers too) need care and structure and can’t just be left for days and weeks on end to fend for themselves. In historical times, before we had schools, before most people worked outside the home, young children were looked after at home by extended families and later often worked alongside their parents. Current social structure - where most mend and women work outside the home (and need to do so to support themselves) - relies on schools playing a part.

tinierclanger

you do what the rest of us does, you manage because you have bills to pay and children to look after, you don't expect the schools to suddenly open in July and August to babysit your child....

but the whole point of school is NOT to get the children out of your way.

Yeah! Bloody parents! It’s not like it’s compulsory for all children aged 5 to 18 to be in full time education or anything.

Whoever posted this was right that childcare isn’t technically part of a school’s remit.

But also being disingenuous: the reality is that millions of parents rely on school in order to be economically productive and the fact schools are shut has massively impacted them.

Academic arguments about what the proper role of school is seem a bit goady when a lot of people are really struggling.

When parents think school is childcare I see people who have their priorities very wrong.

Monkeynuts18
again, you are confusing everything. Full time education is mandatory, the national curriculum or even school attendance is not. Home schooling or home education is perfectly legal for a start.

Obviously some think you shouldn't dare to have children unless you have at least 10 grandparents, a streetful of neighbours and a dozen mum friends willing to provide emergency childcare.

@Homemadeandfromscratch

Your posts imply that you possibly might have benefitted from a bit more time spent at school.

I don't think that school is childcare. But I work when DS is at school, so if school is closed long term then I don't know how I am supposed to work. Some people have had to be furloughed for childcare reasons.

I agree it's a ridiculous thing to say. Especially since schools have been providing childcare - not an education - for key worker children for the last few months.

Monkeynuts18
insulting me and being goady because you don't agree with me but can't articulate an argument to put your point across tells me that I am obviously not the one who would have benefitted from a bit more time spent at school.

Especially since schools have been providing childcare - not an education - for key worker children for the last few months

no one is denying that, but surely that proves that education and childcare and school are not the same thing at all!

you do what the rest of us does, you manage because you have bills to pay and children to look after, you don't expect the schools to suddenly open in July and August to babysit your child

Would you care to expand what you mean by manage

no one is denying that, but surely that proves that education and childcare and school are not the same thing at all!

No, it shows that the 'childcare' element of school is essential for people to go to work.

In the summer time, parents use summer camps and temporary childcare arrangements. The fact that these are also not available is a totally separate problem parents are facing.

I can’t believe I have to lay this out, it’s like talking to a nine year old or something.

Some of the responses here are completely mad.

No, it shows that the 'childcare' element of school is essential for people to go to work.

it doesn't at all! It only shows that under exceptional circumstances schools were the only structures allowed to open.

Childminders have since all reopened here...they started to reopen for key workers weeks ago, now opening for everyone else. Among other possible solutions.

Homemadefromscratch what do you think working parents priority should be?

Do you think wanting your children to be educated and wanting to be able to work are mutually exclusive?

Should couples who both work or families who don’t have grandparents to support be sterilised?

What are you actually saying here?

As far as I can tell you are saying that the role school plays in providing childcare should not factor into your consideration about how you return to work.

What would be your suggestion for people like me: I am a lone parent with a full time job. Should I have been sterilised or had to give my child up for adoption to a nice suburban family with a SAHM?

Genuinely curious to hear what you think people like me should do for having the brass neck to want to know when we can expect to be able to work effectively?

Do you think wanting your children to be educated and wanting to be able to work are mutually exclusive?

why would it be? I am full time working mother, never have I said parents SHOULDN'T work - i haven't taken a day off since the lockdown started.

What I am saying is that I strongly disagree about mixing school with childcare, with safeguarding also. Obviously it becomes part of it, but it should not what the schools are about.

Increase childcare structures if needed, don't confuse everything.

the same way as relaying on schools for providing meals to children in need is wrong. It doesn't mean schools should stop feeding children it means there should be other structures ensuring that said children are being fed even during school breaks, when they are off sick etc.

it doesn't at all! It only shows that under exceptional circumstances schools were the only structures allowed to open.

To educate and provide childcare.

As the OP says, it is disingenuous to claim that schools are not providing childcare when it is obvious that this is a function that they are performing. If the school were not providing childcare, every child would have to be accompanied by a parent or child minder.

There will sometimes be emergencies that will mean that schools can neither education nor provide childcare - illness, adverse weather - but these apply equally to nurseries and childminders - who also educate.

YANBU.

School is clearly more than “just” childcare, but there’s definitely a childcare element to what they do.
They care for and supervise the school aged children during the school day while they’re educating the children.

If there was no childcare at all involved, then the children would need a parent on the school site supervising their child at all times.

And having emergency childcare plans in place for snow, illness, inset days etc, is a different matter altogether for having emergency childcare plans in place for an indefinite school closure caused by a global pandemic.

How can you increase childcare structure?
When they won't be used for most of the year... Because kids are at school.

Still waiting on your wisdom of how people should just manage

it is disingenuous to claim that schools are not providing childcare when it is obvious that this is a function that they are performing.

but it's an indirect function. Not what they are set up for, not why the children are there.

Calculating the school day and the amount of holidays should be in the best interest of the children, not because some parents need childcare. Otherwise you might as well start school at 7:30 and finish it at 7pm.

The same way as it's up to you to deal with a sick child, you wouldn't fill them with calpol or lie about sickness because "school is childcare", would you?

So I should take 6 months off work then? Is that your advice on how to manage

Homemade but what do you mean by you disagree with mixing school and childcare?

Childcare is an outcome of school. It may not be the primary goal but it is an outcome. You can disagree as much as you want but that doesn’t change the fact that as long as school allows parents to work it will be factored into their considerations when planning work.

I don’t really understand why that’s problematic.

You can argue about the safety of school during coronavirus etc but you seem to be saying school should not be factored in to people’s work planning assumptions at all, which is just bonkers.

I think this topic is some good fodder for Mumsnet bingo

Basically:
We must never vent our frustrations that we have to look after small children whilst trying to work in a global pandemic because school is not childcare

Ditto we may never in normal times be even slightly annoyed that school gives us less than a week's notice of an inset day/ costume day/ other event that require parental input. It's clearly not within a school's remit to be bothered that parents work and to communicate effectively.

We must essentially just sit around all day being unproductive waiting for some catastrophic event so that we can look after our children when school is closed because if we don't we are terrible neglectful parents

BUT
Any poster struggling financially/ on benefits/ with a shitty husband absolutely must work. They must be able to find a term time only job (there are of course tons of these available).

No contradictions there hey?