To think that people who say that school is not childcare are being disingenuous

[Notcontent]

There have been so many threads started by people struggling to work while schools are closed, and invariably there are posters who bang on about how “school is not childcare” etc and people just need to suck it up... there was another one today - about holiday clubs - with someone saying that “holiday clubs are a privilege”!

That makes me so mad. The reality is that children (and actually teenagers too) need care and structure and can’t just be left for days and weeks on end to fend for themselves. In historical times, before we had schools, before most people worked outside the home, young children were looked after at home by extended families and later often worked alongside their parents. Current social structure - where most mend and women work outside the home (and need to do so to support themselves) - relies on schools playing a part.

Why on earth would you ‘increase childcare structure’ so it can sit there empty while children are in school?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Certain teachers on here need to come to terms with the fact that yes, childcare is one aspect of what they provide and no, dreaming up hugely inefficient backup provision because they don’t want to acknowledge that, isn’t going to fly with anyone.

Childcare is an outcome of school. It may not be the primary goal but it is an outcome.

I am saying it isn't. I am just shocked at the amount of posters who are completely refusing to be involved in their children education, who take it as a personal attack that the schools have closed, who have bashed and insulted teachers for weeks, and resented having to actually ... be a parent.

Not all of us are off work, we do have to juggle work and kids, but that's being a parent. Resenting the school system because you have to be more involved is wrong.

What is problematic is that people want schools to reopen, not because it's safe (anyone quoting anything remotely negative is called a dementor)
not because we want to do things in the best interest of the children (even if socialising IS important)
but people only want to reopen because they want "childcare" and don't care about anything else. That's what is problematic,

Certain teachers on here
is that addressed to me LaurieMarlow?

Are we back to the teacher bashing and people so miffed because they picture teachers enjoying a full pay holiday?

I am not a teacher, never have been.. but it's very telling that you think anyone with a different opinion must be a teacher.

SAHM used to be the target on MN, now it's teachers. So much resentment...

I think it's in the wording & the general teacher bashing that goes on, quite often on MN. Teachers are paid to educate & obviously a side effect of this is that children are safe and looked after in school. But too often the profession is not respected & teachers are expected to 'teach' things which should not be in their remit. Manners, table manners etc

If it's not childcare why are schools open to key workers now then?

is that addressed to me LaurieMarlow?

Yes.

What you’re suggesting (increasing childcare ‘structure’, whatever that means) is ridiculous and you know it. Regardless of whether you’re a teacher or not.

LaurieMarlow
I do think your points are the ridiculous ones, and becoming so personal doesn't help you at all.

I do think your points are the ridiculous ones

Okay then, please identify specifically what I’ve said on here that’s ‘ridiculous’

I look forward to comparing it with your own suggestions on back up childcare ‘structures’.

worriedquaver Fri 05-Jun-20 15:07:33
If it's not childcare why are schools open to key workers now then?

you do know that exceptional circumstances forced exceptional measures and in many schools there was nothing remotely close to "teaching" or education.. is that what you expect when you send your child to school in normal times?

I don't. I send them because they learn something there.

LaurieMarlow
as you are only twisting all my words and only here for an argument, I am happily ignoring you, as I normally do.

OP I don’t bash teachers or resent the school system. I have huge respect for teachers at the best of times and more than ever now. I also think concerns about the safety of reopening schools are legitimate.

But I am struggling to work and I don’t think it’s unreasonable for me to factor school reopening into my planning.

You keep saying people need to “parent” and “manage” in vague terms as if that were an explanation.

I know a lot of people who are “managing” in pretty fucking awful circumstances: working 10 hours a day from home with children and no support. We are getting through it as best we can.
We are doing so to put food on the table and keep roofs over heads. That’s a major element of “parenting” and is non-negotiable if, like me, you are the sole breadwinner with no support.

But it’s not optimal and I don’t see what’s wrong with wondering aloud when school - which even for the most hands-on parent is an element if child rearing - will reopen.

Expecting people to “manage” indefinitely without alluding in any way to the fact that school is a major consideration is just unreasonable.

@worriedquaver

If it's not childcare why are schools open to key workers now then?

Possibly unintentional, but this is the sort of thing that I think leads to people (esp. teachers) saying "school isn't childcare!"

I do think that school acts as childcare, and it's unsurprising that most parents are reliant on this (and struggling without it) given that school normally happens for at least 6 hours per day, 39 weeks of the year, from the ages of at least 5-18.

But schools are about education primarily. Childcare is normally a side-effect. In the pandemic, the government chose to change this and make schools about childcare for key workers and vulnerable children. This doesn't mean that schools are childcare, though I do think it's very shortsighted when people don't recognise why parents rely on school as childcare.

Sorry that was for Homemade

but it's an indirect function. Not what they are set up for, not why the children are there.

It is a function that is performed for the majority of the year for several hours a day and there are no easily available alternatives.

Most non-parent childcare is done by schools, society is structured so that most parents are expected to work, and few parents would be able to afford to pay for childcare during school hours, therefore realistically a key role of schools is to provide childcare.

Some people cannot juggle work and kids though. I cannot do my job from home and I don't have a partner that I can work around. So it's an either/or situation at the moment. I'm on furlough right now, but it won't last forever.

The issue is not schools being childcare it’s about work places not being family life accommodating.
If it’s meant to be childcare I’d say the 9-3 and 6wk summer break have a lot to answer for.

I feel so sorry for working parents at the moment. Currently, in my town, all the primary schools are opening for reception and year 1, offering approximately half of the places they normally offer. The only other provision open for school age children is me as a childminder. I can have 3 school age children, part time (because I don’t want them full time, as quite honestly, with all the little ones at the same time, it’s to difficult). I have been inundated with requests for childcare for older children, some of them really desperate.

I’m told The government is very quick to Reduce/ stop benefits etc for parents with school aged children in a bid to get them back to work, but this does rely on school being open to have the children.

Those suggesting that school is not childcare, can you tell me why government offer 30 hours of free childcare and education to the majority of 3 year olds? It’s To get parents back to work. They don’t encourage them back to work for them to hand their notice in 18months later when their child starts reception because school isn’t childcare!

School might not be called childcare, but they are meant to be caring for the child so really that’s what it is.

If the government wants to take away the current structure of schools, that’s fine, I’m sure private companies will willingly step in (as childminders and nurseries do for younger children and holiday clubs do when schools routinely close for holidays) and fill the gaps, but again, This doesn’t take in to account the current pandemic. But children need to be taught and schools are generally the best way for society to deal with this issue.

@Wolfiefan

But schools are meant to educate children. The jobs of teachers actually isn’t to babysit. Parents need to sort their own childcare. It’s bloody hard when you have young kids but it’s not up to teachers and schools to solve this.

I have childcare in place in normal times. I pay for breakfast club and after school club. I pay for holiday club. (And have a shedload if childcare vouchers in my account that may now go to waste.). However the clubs are closed even to children of keyworkers. No childminders are taking new children.

Please do let us know where we can source this mythical childcare in the middle of a fucking global pandemic.

In the summer holidays my child spends 2 weeks with me using my annual leave 2 weeks with his dad using annual leave one we have together so there is three weeks. He spends 1 week in 1 grandparents house and one week in the other, he goes to football camp for the other week and a half. At the moment he can’t go to his grandparents, he can’t go to football camp and we can’t take anymore annual leave. We still have the holidays coming up in July (Scotland).

School isn’t child care it’s education, but it’s education that gives you 6 hours of child free time to allow working. Wrap round care also allows working. This pandemic is going to send women back 50 years, it’s so blooming sad.

@ Homemadeandfromscratch

• I am just shocked at the amount of posters who are completely refusing to be involved in their children education I think most people are interested in their children's education, that's why they want children back to school. Some parents are simply overwhelmed with the task of homeschooling and keeping up with the curriculum. They are not the professionals, teachers are.

Not all of us are off work, we do have to juggle work and kids, but that's being a parent
Then you could be a bit more sympathetic! Plus teachers children are classified as key workers children, you can send your children to school, so that you can do your job. A lot of parents currently don't have the option.

^What is problematic is that people want schools to reopen, not because it's safe ...
not because we want to do things in the best interest of the children ...
but people only want to reopen because they want "childcare" and don't care about anything else^

I totally disagree. Firstly, corona is here to stay, just like many other diseases. We need to get on with it. We can do risk assessment and act accordingly. Science currently suggests, the majority of the working population and children are not in immediate danger. People absolutely need to get back to work (and children back to school because that enables people like me to work, the same as it does for you.)
I am sure, nobody willingly wants to endanger someone else's life. But if we don't work, we don't have an income, we don't have somewhere to live we don't eat.... we don't pay taxes and don't pay for our children's education...

Good god!! Sometimes I wonder would some parents like if the school collected the child from the bloody maternity ward and dropped them back at 18!!

What is problematic is that people want schools to reopen, not because it's safe ...
not because we want to do things in the best interest of the children ...but people only want to reopen because they want "childcare" and don't care about anything else

Bullshit, being away from their school and friends with nothing open is having a detrimental affect on our children and many of us are worried sick about it!

Clearly school is set/up to provide childcare otherwise the model of education would look quite different. You can’t educate a 4 year old without providing childcare. I don’t know why people are bringing sick children into it. Most childcare providers don’t want sick children. You can’t remove 30 hours a week of childcare (more for those with wrap around care) and think it is all going to be sunshine and roses for working parents.

Schools are only open part time for some cildren at the moment. That's just how it is. Looking ahead it will be part time for all well into next term.

It's really hard for parents, I don't think anyone is saying it isn't but I'm not sure what some parents expect schools to do. Not enough teachers, rooms too small for all to go back safely.

as you are only twisting all my words and only here for an argument, I am happily ignoring you, as I normally do.

I’m not twisting anything. Again, demonstrate what you’re talking about.

But I do so enjoy when posters pretend they’re taking the moral high ground because they can’t answer the points being made to them, so thanks for that.