To think that people who say that school is not childcare are being disingenuous

[Notcontent]

There have been so many threads started by people struggling to work while schools are closed, and invariably there are posters who bang on about how “school is not childcare” etc and people just need to suck it up... there was another one today - about holiday clubs - with someone saying that “holiday clubs are a privilege”!

That makes me so mad. The reality is that children (and actually teenagers too) need care and structure and can’t just be left for days and weeks on end to fend for themselves. In historical times, before we had schools, before most people worked outside the home, young children were looked after at home by extended families and later often worked alongside their parents. Current social structure - where most mend and women work outside the home (and need to do so to support themselves) - relies on schools playing a part.

YANBU.

Of course people expect their children to be able to go to school between set hours. I would say however that some people see schools reopening in a rather odd way. Some people don't want to send their Y1 or Y6 kids in to school on the days they are at home. Instead they only want to send them in when they are at work. This seems like the parents basically see the school as a holiday club / babysitting service. If they genuinely wanted their children back in school, they would send them all the days available. I have been really surprised by the parents who are happy to keep their kids at home, not because they fear the virus but because it suits them as they are still furloghed or because it is easier to not make the journey to school or because their kids are happier playing on their x boxes. We were ready to welcome back 120 children, we had 30!

I was interested to look into what happened with schools in WW2 and found several articles explaining that many schools were requisitioned by the government, many bombed and other relocated outside of cities. In the later case many children did not move with the school and in the others there was effectively no school for them to go to. Estimates suggest as many as a million children were “running wild” in London alone and juvenile delinquency rates went through the roof. Children were deprived of school meals as well as an education and these factors lead to the 1944 education act. Therefore it is clear to me that in policy terms education is as much about social care and welfare as well as education and we should not underestimate its remit or role (in other words it’s not just education, it’s not just childcare it is both and more)

"No one is denying that you can use the school hours as "childcare" , as in not needing another structure for that

but the whole point of school is NOT to get the children out of your way."

^This is it.

I think it's important to keep the idea that school isn't childcare. In that parents can't expect the school to continue to look after the child if they're no there for the primary purpose of school (to be educated). So that parents can't complain about school not taking children when they are ill, or excessively disruptive, or teachers can't get in because of snow days. In all these scenarios school is not childcare and it should be on the parents to take some kind of leave to look after their child.

However by taking the children to educate, and expecting the parents to leave them there, the schools are also providing childcare as a secondary provision. So any child who is there for the primary purpose of being educated gets the secondary bonus of also being cared for. This is why parents must support and encourage children to go to school and engage in education. Because by getting their children to engage in education they get the secondary benefit of childcare.

However in Covid times children are still expected to be educated without the secondary benefit of childcare. I think this is where the problem is because it leaves parents run off their feet by being expected to continue to educate alongside their work without any childcare benefits. If there was no expectation of continued education then it would be easier for parents because pretty much all NT school aged children can be supervised without being engaged with, they may want to be engaged with but they don't have to be, even reception aged children have silent work time (even if it's not ideal for their development it is possible). So that a parent could continue to wfh whilst leaving them in the corner of the room watching tv/doing an activity. That's where the school as childcare debate springs from.

School is education with the effect that it provides reliable childcare but it's not obliged to parents to provide childcare in the absence of education.

I found the new item that BBC did on the early reopening of Denmark's schools really interesting, especially because the teacher speaking was very open that a key reason was that people needed to get back to work, and also said that in Denmark they think it is the community's responsibility to raise a child.

This more communal approach is more like my family's culture, and contrasted hugely to me with the British approach that if you have children that's your choice, and their education and raising is your problem (and on the flipside, also your right to do as you wish). I think it is more realistic, more supportive and better for children as well as parents.

Even those who don't want or even like children will be relying on them to fund their pensions, to shape the world in years to come - we should want them well cared for, and raised in the way that benefits us as a group.

@Stuckforthefourthtime

By that logic we should all as a society get a say in how children are raised, parents shouldn't be allowed to have such individualistic approaches to parenting based solely on what's best for them/their little family.

School is not childcare, if it was, anyone not being able to return to work due to childcare wouldn’t have a problem would they.

However, school is for learning, during that time teachers are also providing childcare.

So if a child can be taught first, they will be cared for too. If a child can not be taught, they will not be cared for and have to return to their parents.

Teachers who child-cared first, for key workers children, even though there was no education being taught....was because it is a exceptional circumstance. Simple as that.

Schools are not currently in a situation to teach all children at the same time 5 days a week, so this means as they cannot teach- they cannot childcare. Teaching first, childcare due to the teaching. Not childcare and I’ll teach them too whilst they are here.

This is why school is not childcare, because to access that childcare, educating has to take place first.

People working who cannot send your kids back to school....it’s no body’s fault, no ones, but as they are your children it is your problem......it massively sucks and I feel for you, your in a crazy situation!

it’s no body’s fault, no ones, but as they are your children it is your problem

Well I’d love to know whose problem it is to provide for my children when I find myself unable to do my job because there is no childcare,

Oh wait, me again ...

How the fuck is that supposed to work?

Of course part of a school’s remit is to provide childcare! We are all locked into an economic system: more parents incl women at work - the parents pay taxes - taxes enable and fund schools - more tax money enables education to continue to 18+. If those parents weren’t working, we’d be back to pre war situation where most mothers would have to be at home and lots of children would leave education at 12,14 etc. Plus tax money pays teacher wages. So we are all connected and locked in to the system.

If school isn’t childcare.... why have they opened up school hubs for keyworkers kids??

@BrieAndChilli

Exceptional circumstances.

Same as how supermarkets aren't charities but right now are giving discounts and free food to key workers. Because they are saving thousands of lives right now so everything is being done to make their lives as easy as possible.

The government push to reopen schools is explicitly related to getting adults back to work.

Also the schools staying open for key workers so they could work is a clue.

Yes the priority is education. But. There is the point about why it came into being in the form it is. Here's an article:

www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/1314814/universal-education-was-first-promoted-by-industrialists-who-wanted-docile-factory-workers/amp/

The point of education is not raised really, it's taken for granted. Which is fine, I think being educated is very important. No question there. It's still accepted though, again unquestioned, that the main reason is to be able to engage in work in the modern workplace, and hopefully get a decent job. It's about the economy, about capitalism.

This has been really shown up in the fees at university thing. You need to spend money to make money. The idea of knowledge for the sake of knowledge, interest, love of a subject has all but gone. I find this really sad. It's all about money.

If this becomes longer term what happens to the philosophers, the artists, the creatives. The artists etc etc. Will these things again become the remit of the wealthy?

Anyway I'm getting on a rant...

The origins of universal education, the uniforms, the rules around suppressing individuality (hair etc) all speak to a certain aim as well.

It's all very interesting.

I can understand why people say it's not childcare. But childcare is an important by- product and the reason it started was to produce a population that are work ready. Uniforms, timekeeping, taking instruction from others etc. The fact it enables (mainly) women to work more is a benefit to the economy that came later (and it's still an issue for women).

What do you do in the summer break? You find some childcare. What do you do BEFORE and AFTER the school day? You find childcare

I have never read anything more stupid in my life. Until this week childcare wasn't allowed to open to anyone other than key workers. All those things we use before and after school and in the holidays were closed

Yes we find a way through the holidays.

And it's a total nightmare.

Why would school open for key workers if they are not some form of childcare?

@shinyfootball

I found your rant pretty interesting to be honest! I didn't know that history and might look into it more. I mean, I think it's sad and suggests to me that school is just part of the factory line of life, but interesting none the less.

Oh thank you!

I think it's often interesting to question the status quo. Things we accept as a given. Hi down Google rabbit holes, as well as the obvious ( main stream media, wiki etc) and see what you think.

There were good reasons for pushing out schooling to all, related to Victorian era and social reformers. OTOH they created it in a certain format that was then replicated around the world (I'd need to check that). There is a whole lot of stuff about capitalism, people's 'worth', and who gets what education now, around the world, all mixed in. You could end up going down a lot of rabbit holes and seeing other areas of interest... Good luck!

School is both education and childcare. People who say "school isn't childcare" are idiots to be honest. Yes, kids get an education, but it does enable both parents or a single parent to work, so it fulfills both functions.

I think it's more helpful to look at it from the other way, and ask why on earth we have managed to come up with an economic system that requires parents to be unavailable to fulfil parenting and familial duties. Why are school timings so out of step with work - why is work so out of step with school. Why are things getting worse.

I do think a lot of school staff need a wake up call about their attitudes towards parents who need to work, but school is not childcare, it is education.

I do think a lot of school staff need a wake up call about their attitudes towards parents who need to work

This.

School is childcare. It’s there so parents can work and the children (next generation of workers) can be made work ready. It all for the wider benefit of the economy. The government needs parents in work for financial purposes. Schools enable this

Yanbu. If society and governments want both parents to work (and let's face it that's how society is set up now) then you have to accept that one of the roles of school is to enable parents to work. It may not be the primary role but it's no coincidence that a lot of mums only go back to work when their youngest child is school age.

So after school clubs and holiday clubs are part of this set up.

If school isn’t childcare.... why have they opened up school hubs for keyworkers kids??

Teachers were very unwise to do this and should have negotiated a deal for TOIL. It's what I do - no TOIL, no echt.

It's funny that in the U.K. everyone turns to the teachers and school for childcare...meanwhile in Ireland, schools are closed and no one is blaming/expecting anything from the teachers!!