Rant alert! How do those who want Lockdown to continue justify the suffering of everyone else?

[Thefrenchbaguette]

My 3 month old has been waiting for a hip scan to confirm her rather obvious DDH. She needs a harness, the GP already confirmed she will need one and put in an urgent referral at her 6 week review and still nothing because they're not doing them at all here! You can only use a harness up until 6 months and after that the treatment for DDH is an operation! My baby is going to have to have a completely unavoidable operation or suffer lifelong damage to her hips because the NHS is just not interested in anyone who doesn't have Covid19! There isn't even the option to pay for it to be done privately! I am furious and so sick of seeing countless threads and comments about how lockdown needs to be continued and even stricter! All very well with your comfortable house and perfectly secure income and no real risk to your overall well-being but what about everyone else who is suffering?!
A friend had an abnormal smear come back in January but the follow up has been indefinitely postponed! How many people are going to miss life saving diagnosis', life saving treatments! It's disgusting and I feel so unbelievably angry at what this country has come through so 90% of people can avoid getting what is essentially a bad cold!

What about the protesting won’t that put the number of infections up? The longer people are not at work and school, there will be more protests, as people loose their jobs and have no money, the protests will get larger, one spiralling vicious circle

The protests were nothing to do with people not being at work or school.

@Alex50

What about the protesting won’t that put the number of infections up? The longer people are not at work and school, there will be more protests, as people loose their jobs and have no money, the protests will get larger, one spiralling vicious circle

Firstly, I strongly suspect that the BLM marches are going to result in zero spike in cases which is going to prove (to those who will listen) that the lockdown is incredibly stupid. Of course, it will hold no water with the lockdown extremists.

Secondly, what you must understand about the BLM marches is that they were for a Good Cause so the overriding Public Health Emergency of covid19 can be set aside to accommodate them - the earlier marches against lockdown were for a Bad Cause so the Public Health Emergency of covid19 could not be set aside.

I hope this clarifies.

Firstly, I strongly suspect that the BLM marches are going to result in zero spike in cases which is going to prove (to those who will listen) that the lockdown is incredibly stupid. Of course, it will hold no water with the lockdown extremists.

Considering that the marches were outside and from what I've seen most people were wearing masks ,it will only convince people that it's relatively safe outside with masks on. It's not going to convince anyone that schools or workplaces or anywhere indoors safe.

I guess you were watching different reports than me.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36750533

Also I suspect that they were probably taking some kind of public transport to these various city centres.

And possibly getting coffee or Pret or similar while out and about.

Keep making a big fuss OP, but if it doesn't look promising then the link @BeijingBikini looks really helpful. If money is an issue perhaps everyone on the thread could chip in a few pence and we'll get there in no time! I may not think it has much to do with lockdown, but I really want your DD to get what she needs asap.

MarginalGain. Do you really truly believe lockdown didn’t make difference to R rate and subsequent deaths? If yes, based on what? What is your area of expertise and what scientific evidence have you seen and can you cite it please? I’d really like to learn more.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-lockdown-sweden-death-rate-worst-country-covid-19-a9539206.html%3famp

That just relates to this week.

Belgium is still the highest for per capita deaths.

www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-opinion-coronavirus-europe-lockdown-excess-deaths-recession/

Consider googling the worldwide body of epidemiological studies.

I thought the UK had the worst death rate, because of Johnson? Or the US, because of Trump? Or is it now Sweden, because they didn't lock down? Or is in Brazil because of Bolsonaro?

The one thing we know for certain is that IT CAN NOT BE BELGIUM because Belgium's PM is a woman and they are EU members.

OP needs to call the GP tomorrow and the GP will call the orthopaedic team for her

If only. GPs don't have a hotline to the consultants anymore, they have to battle to get through to the part-time PA like the rest of us.

I would say going to A&E and making a nuisance of yourself is the only way. Or going to the orthopedic ward in person. The latter approach worked for my mum last year when she hadn't been able to get through to her consultant or his PA for weeks. Someone saw her and rang her back that evening with a plan.

Please do not turn up at A+E. That is ridiculous advice.

Here's another interesting statistic: 66% of the ICU patients in NYC were staying at home scrupulously. The city had assumed that the majority of people succumbing to covid19 would be key workers, or irresponsible lockdown flouters, but that wasn't the case.

www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov-cuomo-says-its-shocking-most-new-coronavirus-hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html

Interestingly, Cuomo won lots of accolades for his coronavirus efforts. They had a pretty austere lockdown and he accused Trump of prioritising money over people, so it was assumed that he was doing a good job.

Ultimately NY performed pretty badly - 76 deaths per 100,000 - mostly because he focused on emptying the hospitals into care homes, like Johnson.

Florida, on the other hand, had a much softer lockdown and has a governor that supports Trump, so it was assumed that he was doing a bad job/prioritising money over lives. Ultimately they had 4 deaths per 100,000 (despite having an average age of around 42 vs NY's 35) but he's still considered to have done a terrible job. Weird!

Marginal how on earth did they get it then? That's really interesting

@MarginalGain it actually says that 66% of the people were living at home.(Vs assisted living, jail etc). 84% were apparently not keyworkers/commuting etc, but most were retired or unemployed, and a high percentage were from ethnic minorities... Suggesting a high likelihood that a decent chunk either lived with a partner or other cohabitant who WAS working out of the home, or had carers coming. The stats are fine but the analysis is a bit dodgy.

Totally agree with you re Cuomo though. He's getting plaudits for dealing well with a terrible situation that he helped to create..

Puffin. Yes the GP can call the ortho on call. Or relevant consultant secretary for their Trust. Are you a GP? Why are you saying that?
Do not go to AE that is ridiculous advice .

Suggesting a high likelihood that a decent chunk either lived with a partner or other cohabitant who WAS working out of the home, or had carers coming. The stats are fine but the analysis is a bit dodgy.

This was under a shelter-in-place order, so only key workers would be working. I don't agree it makes sense to assume that they were living with key workers but let's assume they were - why would those staying at home be so overrepresented?

Well we don't know the circumstances of the cases in NYC. Some may not have lived alone, some may have been going out for permitted purposes, some may caught it before lockdown, some may have caught it via surface transmission on an item coming into the home, some may have lied. Surely we just can't draw a conclusion from what we have there.

Are those staying at home over represented if that included key workers, and also presumably the majority of the population live at home rather than being homeless or in an institution or facility. Sorry, I may be missing something really obvious here.

@MarginalGain but did you see the chart? The 66% at home referred to where they were living not that they had never left. It could include key workers who were living at home.

And for the rest, the shelter in place didn't mean they lived in a bubble. Carers came and went. Delivery drivers came and went. Children in key worker jobs came and went. People needed to visit the shops, or chose not to follow the rules etc etc

The one thing we know for certain is that IT CAN NOT BE BELGIUM because Belgium's PM is a woman and they are EU members.

👌🏻

[quote Stuckforthefourthtime]**@MarginalGain* but did you see the chart? The 66% at home referred to where they were living not* that they had never left. It could include key workers who were living at home.

And for the rest, the shelter in place didn't mean they lived in a bubble. Carers came and went. Delivery drivers came and went. Children in key worker jobs came and went. People needed to visit the shops, or chose not to follow the rules etc etc[/quote]
It specifically did not include key workers. That's the point. The might have had key workers living with them, we don't know, but why are those who were at home, sheltering in place, so overrepresented in the ICU figures?

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“If you notice, 18% of the people came from nursing homes, less than 1% came from jail or prison, 2% came from the homeless population, 2% from other congregate facilities, but 66% of the people were at home, which is shocking to us,” Cuomo said.

“This is a surprise: Overwhelmingly, the people were at home,” he added. “We thought maybe they were taking public transportation, and we’ve taken special precautions on public transportation, but actually no, because these people were literally at home.”

Cuomo said nearly 84% of the hospitalized cases were people who were not commuting to work through car services, personal cars, public transit or walking. He said a majority of those people were either retired or unemployed. Overall, some 73% of the admissions were people over age 51.

He said the information shows that those who are hospitalized are predominantly from the downstate area in or around New York City, are not working or traveling and are not essential employees. He also said a majority of the cases in New York City are minorities, with nearly half being African American or Hispanic.

Cuomo said state health officials had thought a high percentage of people who were hospitalized would be essential employees, like health-care workers or city staff, who are still going to work.

“Much of this comes down to what you do to protect yourself. Everything is closed down, government has done everything it could, society has done everything it could. Now it’s up to you,” Cuomo said.

So if only key workers are working, and everyone else is under lockdown, and the people under lockdown are winding up in ICUs more than the key workers, what's the point of lockdown?

So if only key workers are working, and everyone else is under lockdown, and the people under lockdown are winding up in ICUs more than the key workers, what's the point of lockdown?

The number of people in the "everyone else" category would be much higher than those who are keyworkers so doesn't tell you much. They would need to compare the proportion of people who are keyworkers who are hospitalised with the proportion of non keyworkers hospitalised and then adjust the data to take into account age and other factors that would increase the risk.