Rant alert! How do those who want Lockdown to continue justify the suffering of everyone else?

[Thefrenchbaguette]

My 3 month old has been waiting for a hip scan to confirm her rather obvious DDH. She needs a harness, the GP already confirmed she will need one and put in an urgent referral at her 6 week review and still nothing because they're not doing them at all here! You can only use a harness up until 6 months and after that the treatment for DDH is an operation! My baby is going to have to have a completely unavoidable operation or suffer lifelong damage to her hips because the NHS is just not interested in anyone who doesn't have Covid19! There isn't even the option to pay for it to be done privately! I am furious and so sick of seeing countless threads and comments about how lockdown needs to be continued and even stricter! All very well with your comfortable house and perfectly secure income and no real risk to your overall well-being but what about everyone else who is suffering?!
A friend had an abnormal smear come back in January but the follow up has been indefinitely postponed! How many people are going to miss life saving diagnosis', life saving treatments! It's disgusting and I feel so unbelievably angry at what this country has come through so 90% of people can avoid getting what is essentially a bad cold!

@alreadytaken

"Without lockdown, we could well be back where we were in March, with Covid rampaging through hospitals, infecting patients who were already there for no Covid reasons, and a massive staff shortage due to huge numbers of staff off sick or self isolating due to symptoms. The NHS was days away from total collapse back in March! That could happen again very easily if numbers are allowed to rise exponentially again."

We have to keep saying this. Lockdown allows at least some non Covid work to continue, loosening lockdown too much means it cant. People have to return to work but the more people continue to social distance the more non Covid work the NHS can do.

People who dont want to listen want this child to miss out.

I suppose you must be referring to the continuous Guardian warnings of the NHS's impending collapse that never came to pass (not because of lockdown, mind you - we now know that the UK reached the peak of covid19 deaths many days too soon for it to be attributable to the lockdown).

December 2019, for example, was a very bad month for the NHS and critical care beds, when lives (including children's) were in danger from respirator shortages.

Pre-covid19 NHS was under far more strain than it ever was in 2020, and no one really paid terribly much attention to it.

” As awful as OPs situation is, it's really not an emergency. I am in no way down playing the potential outcomes or risk to poor child but in the grand schemes of medical conditions it's simply not an emergency. As my previous post said, a risk assessment will have been done and all patients on the consultants work load will have been put in priority order to be seen. Chances are this case is one of 100s so isn't just a case of "it will take 30 mins" - why would this child be prioritised over a different one with the same condition who maybe has it worse or been waiting longer?”

Absolutely! I am concerned about the delay in healthcare but this isn’t a priority compared to other things that are waiting.

Also, people accuse the pro lockdown people of being introspective. Well, that’s bizarre. Firstly, human beings are inherently selfish and out for their own survival. Secondly, OP only cares about her own child, not the masses. It benefits her and her child directly. She’s not wrong, just saying.

I’m not pro lockdown but NHS may not prioritise babies needing harnesses as part of cleaning the back log. The reason R remains at the level is partly due to big outbreaks in care homes and hospitals. Therefore, they are limiting people in the hospitals to the ones who really, really need to be there.

@Ginfilledcats

As awful as OPs situation is, it's really not an emergency. I am in no way down playing the potential outcomes or risk to poor child but in the grand schemes of medical conditions it's simply not an emergency. As my previous post said, a risk assessment will have been done and all patients on the consultants work load will have been put in priority order to be seen. Chances are this case is one of 100s so isn't just a case of "it will take 30 mins" - why would this child be prioritised over a different one with the same condition who maybe has it worse or been waiting longer?

Also perhaps the hospital doesn't have many consultants who specialise in this area and the ones that do are off sick (as is the case with one of the specialties I manage - the entire consultant body (only 2 total to be fair) are off sick with covid - one on ICU and one poorly at home). You can't just magic medics up from no where.

Advice would be to contact PALS and ask calmly and politely what the situation is, what the reasoning is for the patient not being seen, the likelihood of date to be seen and lastly a copy of the risk assessment or risk stratification for this particular patient from the consultant as to the clinical decision made to have delayed the care. If the latter is not provided you can then escalate as a safety concern to the medical director and head of nursing

Really fucking patronising post. Dd 2 had to have her hips scanned So I understand the OP worry so get to fuck with your ‘it’s just not an emergency’. You don’t get to tell people how to feel about their own kids.

Children with potentially life long painful problems shouldn’t be falling through the cracks. No body should. There is a huge decrease in people having cancer investigations, many oncologists have spoken out about it and are worried there will be a huge spike of cancer deaths directly related to this.

It doesn’t matter if these are not 999 issues there are all equally important and the NHS need to get their shit together. We are not over run and never have been

@Haenow

” As awful as OPs situation is, it's really not an emergency. I am in no way down playing the potential outcomes or risk to poor child but in the grand schemes of medical conditions it's simply not an emergency. As my previous post said, a risk assessment will have been done and all patients on the consultants work load will have been put in priority order to be seen. Chances are this case is one of 100s so isn't just a case of "it will take 30 mins" - why would this child be prioritised over a different one with the same condition who maybe has it worse or been waiting longer?”

Absolutely! I am concerned about the delay in healthcare but this isn’t a priority compared to other things that are waiting.

Also, people accuse the pro lockdown people of being introspective. Well, that’s bizarre. Firstly, human beings are inherently selfish and out for their own survival. Secondly, OP only cares about her own child, not the masses. It benefits her and her child directly. She’s not wrong, just saying.

I’m not pro lockdown but NHS may not prioritise babies needing harnesses as part of cleaning the back log. The reason R remains at the level is partly due to big outbreaks in care homes and hospitals. Therefore, they are limiting people in the hospitals to the ones who really, really need to be there.

Astonishing. I'd say this baby really, really needs to be there.

@bedtimesuzie I apologise I really didn't mean to come across patronisingly. I can't begin to understand the worry the OP and yourself have had over these circumstances!

As I said, it's horrific what's going on but it's also unprecedented and people are trying their best. Mostly of course - there's always instances of poor decisions and poor practise and the variance among hospitals and the terrible communication is horrdenous.

I'm not wrong in that it's not an emergency though - it's not a cardiac arrest or a fractured pelvis. But it is urgent and needs looking at, obviously. No denying that. Especially when there is evidently a time frame to be able to correct it without doing further damage to the poor child or resulting in more intrusive care being called for such as surgery. Ironically it would be far easier (let alone cheaper) for the hospital to fit a harness etc than to preop, admit, operate and recover a child!! However if this isn't being done there will be a good reason. All I'm saying is consider the wider implications of what's going on and ask the hospital to provide the guidance and challenge from that.

It's truly awful times and I do feel for those who's care have been effected!

Too many people rationalising that this isn’t urgent and not a priority.

Madness. Anyone with a passing knowledge of paediatric orthopaedics knows that ddh isn’t a life of limb emergency as in you need to act in the next 24hrs but it is very urgent and time limited and needs to be sorted

What may well have happened / speculation is that the GP referred for the scan and this is been held up as non cancer ultrasound lists have been cancelled so otheopedics don’t even know this kid exists, and if they did they would be doing something about it which is why op needs to call her GP and get them to call ortho. DDH was treated before USS existed for this reason so the scan dosent need to be the hold up.

Top paediatric doctors and and the royal college of paediatrics are saying loudly that kids are presenting too late and coming to harm. This is a prime example of this.

Untreated DDH means that the child will never walk. For lack of some straps and metal. DDH in any form of functioning health service is a priority and dosent need anything fancy of that technical. This kid would be getting better healthcare in a rural clinic in Africa than she is from the nhs at the moment - yes I have worked in rural Africa and yes I have seen harnesses go on these kids there

The people that want lockdown to continue are just selfish. They don't care about children who are at such little risk. They don't care about people's mental health, they don't care about suicide, they don't care about jobs, the ecomony or anything other than there stupid need to shut everyone indoors.

They should stay inside as long as they want to but let the rest of us that want to get out and on with life back to work and school and out.
They have screamed murder long enough. Stay indoors if you want to some of us have to work and live.

@MarginalGain

You’re silly if you think the NHS will prioritise this. Sadly, they won’t. I don’t make the rules!!

Do I think this baby should have her appointment ASAP? Yes, 100%. The bottom line is that there are more urgent things waiting. That’s not my fault. 🤷🏻‍♀️ They will be prioritised. Is it right? No but patients are assessed based on current need. I need treatment (not orthopaedic) and I’d willing give my space to a baby or child, so please don’t put words in my mouth.

"The people that want lockdown to continue are just selfish. "

Like doctors then? They're calling for it because they're selfish?

www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m2202?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_term=hootsuite&utm_content=sme&utm_campaign=usage

I’m sorry that you feel neglected OP but the NHS is woefully overstretched right now. Tax money, which the NHS relies on , isn’t coming in much right now.
I’m a bit perturbed by some of your comments. We lost our mum to Covid in a nursing home. We couldn’t visit her at all, not even at the end. We couldn’t even attend her funeral as my husband is shielding due to a heart defect and was miles away.

I’m awaiting surgery but it won’t happen for a while. I’ll just wait.

As other posters have said, 40,000 people don’t die from a cold.

Your daughter will get treatment at some point. Her hip dysplasia doesn’t trump a kidney/heart transplant... and even those are being delayed.

These are strange and difficult times. The money isn’t there. We’re all in this together.

@LongTallSammie

The people that want lockdown to continue are just selfish. They don't care about children who are at such little risk. They don't care about people's mental health, they don't care about suicide, they don't care about jobs, the ecomony or anything other than there stupid need to shut everyone indoors.

They should stay inside as long as they want to but let the rest of us that want to get out and on with life back to work and school and out.
They have screamed murder long enough. Stay indoors if you want to some of us have to work and live.

Omg an amazing post. Thank you.

LongTallSammie I think lots of people are concerned that your attitude borders on genocide. You seem not to worry about the at risk groups, and want to keep them hidden and let them die.
Very sad. A few weeks of restrictions are too much to save thousands of lives?

Having spoken to some people over the last day or so there is more non Covid nhs stuff going on than you might think. Obviously nothing like what people need but examples below.

Family friend diagnosed with cancer and had surgery just before lockdown, has been having chemo during lockdown and says cannot fault care received.

Neighbour found suspicious mole during lockdown, new to area so had to register with local GP who arranged dermatology follow up at local hospital which was quickly done, and a date to remove it now arranged even though they think is low risk.

DM's local surgery are not booking appts ahead but telephone appts available on day and if GP agrees needed in person appts taking place at the surgery. Several of DM's friends have been up to surgery for regular blood tests needed as monitoring due to to medication taken.

LongTallSammie

I don't know exactly what you want now, or have wanted up to now, but your words about not caring about the economy, education, mental health etc certainly apply to those who wanted to see exponential growth continue to a natural peak. You think this has been a shutdown? You ain't seen nothing yet.

@LongTallSammie

The people that want lockdown to continue are just selfish. They don't care about children who are at such little risk. They don't care about people's mental health, they don't care about suicide, they don't care about jobs, the ecomony or anything other than there stupid need to shut everyone indoors.

They should stay inside as long as they want to but let the rest of us that want to get out and on with life back to work and school and out.
They have screamed murder long enough. Stay indoors if you want to some of us have to work and live.

My mental health is a million trillion times better than usual in lockdown. So is it fair for me to say that people who want it to end are selfish because once its over I'll be suffering again.

Regardless of my view on lockdown its awful that people who need treatment are falling through the cracks. I hope you can get your baby seen soon OP.

@cherrypavlova Very sad. A few weeks of restrictions are too much to save thousands of lives?

I also disagree with some of the more extreme posters above, but people who don't have much to do with the NHS may not appreciate that this is not a matter of weeks. After all the weeks so far, plus with distancing restrictions, procedures are being delayed by months or more, including for some very serious conditions, from tumours to degenerative eye conditions.

Mental health was already a distaster and is now worse. My nephew's ASD assessment has been delayed again and will now be a total wait of nearly 18 months, and he is a very clear case of a child in need of additional support, I hate to imagine what it is for children or adults who present as doing ok.

I don’t disagree Stuckforthefourthtime I have much to do with NHS, it’s sad that there is a huge reduction in elective work passed of as being due to lockdown. That isn’t the case.
CAMHS assessments are delayed because the service has been decimated and exacerbated because few want to complete the arduous training for not a huge reward. It’s about service cuts, funding and treating junior doctors so shabbily they want to leave medicine and not be subject to more years training, with little control over their lives.

Brexit won’t make health services better either, sadly.

I completely agree @Stuckforthefourthtime.

It is shocking though that some people can't grasp that these problems are not due to lockdown.

Whether you never wanted any lockdown, want it to end now, want it to continue gradually easing, want it to carry on, get stricter...whatever, it isn't going to relate to the NHS prioritisation.

There are only two (very different) ways it could that I can see, and few posters here have proposed either as part of their reasoning.

1. Lockdown relates to NHS care in that the harder we lockdown the fewer cases there will be, this will have an effect on transmission within hospitals since staff and new patients are less likely to be infected, making it safer for immuno compromised patients to attend and easier for all services to be offered. It will also reduce the need for setting aside capacity for imminent surges.

1. Lockdown relates to NHS care in that it represents one result of the erroneous belief that Covid was ever going to overwhelm the NHS or become a problem of that nature. Still not placing lockdown as a direct cause of the problems, but establishes a context in which it perpetuates a way of thinking that also influences NHS planning.

No longer- are you nhs medical staff

I don’t work in the U.K., hence my horror at posters who think that this is in anyway acceptable or justified “because Covid”. It’s very very poor care, putting a baby at risk of a life long disability.

Australian hospitals cut services in preparation for Covid as well, elective surgery was culled and some clinics cancelled. This baby would still have been scanned and in a harness within a few days. If avoiding a lifelong hip disability - with a simple application of a harness - isn’t considered an emergency, I’m not sure what is. It may not be life saving but it’s limb function saving.

Untreated DDH means that the child will never walk. For lack of some straps and metal. DDH in any form of functioning health service is a priority and dosent need anything fancy of that technical. This kid would be getting better healthcare in a rural clinic in Africa than she is from the nhs at the moment - yes I have worked in rural Africa and yes I have seen harnesses go on these kids there.

This is definitely a fuck up, not someone’s clinical decision.

Some of you don’t appreciate the degree to which this is a fuck up but it’s unbelievably shocking care. You clearly don’t have a health service, can’t believe everyone has been out clapping for it.

@nolongersurprised

You’re comparing apples (Australia’s healthcare system) with oranges (NHS).
This isn’t covid related. This is symptomatic of a chronically underfunded system. Even pre Covid, it wouldn’t have been done “in a few days”. There are, sadly, many conditions that would massively improve quality of life if treated much quicker than they are.

Haneow

Pre covid nhs clinically suspected DDH (so not just risk factors) should be a same day call to orthopaedics who in my experience scan and see in clinic in a week (hip actually out of socket is see and reduce same day, risk factors are scan in six weeks)

I’ve worked in a good few areas in the uk and this is what should happen. It may well be that this is a f up not related at all to covid but if what the op says is true it’s an f up ( in fact ddh picked up at 6 weeks is a missed diagnosis in itself because it should have been picked up in the baby check in the first 72hrs of life - although that’s not always possible and errors can be made, the 6 week check is the safely net.

6 week checks are still happening, so babies are being exposed to a GP who is taking the risk to baby and GP to see them to check for DDH (and heart mummurs, testicles and cataracts) so across the county babies are daily being exposed to the healthcare system to check for ddh and clinicians to babies and isn’t that a bit pointless if the conditons picked up are then not treated....

@nonotthatdr

” I’ve worked in a good few areas in the uk and this is what should happen.”

I think we are saying the same thing. What should happen and what does happen can, unfortunately, be two different things. I agree, this isn’t necessarily a Covid problem, it’s a system problem. I really do hope the little one gets seen ASAP.

I'm so sorry about your daughter's hip OP, she deserves better. It is shit that children are missing out on medical care like this ☹️

I really feel for you. Of course you are upset and frustrated OP. It must be really hard.

I don’t think anybody wants lockdown to carry on - it’s shit for most people in different ways. It’s just the understanding that it needs to. This isn’t just a bad cold and lockdown isn’t just about protecting individuals from it. It’s far greater.

Some operations where I work are starting back up again including for children. Get in touch with the team that are looking after you and let them know the situation and your concerns. The NHS is open for as much as it can possibly do.