MNHQ here - should we support the campaign to end ‘rough sex’ defences?

[JustineMumsnet]

Hello

As lots of you will already know because their campaign originated on Mumsnet, the group We Can’t Consent To This has been running a campaign to end ‘rough sex’ defences - and we’d like to know what you think about MNHQ signing up as a supporter of their
campaign.

Their aim is to end a situation in which defendants can claim that the death of or injury to a woman was caused by ‘consensual sex games gone wrong’.

They say:

‘We’ve now found 60 UK women who’ve been killed by men who claim a sex game gone wrong - and in the last 5 years the defence was successful in 7 of the 17 killings of a woman which reached trial, with the man being found not guilty or receiving a manslaughter conviction. We've found many more women injured in what the accused men claim was consensual sexual violence.
Yet more women tell us it’s now commonplace to be assaulted and abused by men they’re dating, with 38% of UK women under 40 reporting being assaulted - choked, slapped, gagged or spat on - in otherwise consensual sex. That equates to 3.6 million women under 40 in the UK who have experienced unbidden violence in sex - and we know that women over 40 experience this too.
We do not believe that women can consent to their grievous injury or death, and will campaign until claiming this is no longer a useful defence.’
We Can’t Consent To This is currently lobbying to tackle these ‘rough sex defences’ by adding amendements to the Domestic Abuse Bill that is going through Parliament, meaning that now is the time to get writing to MPs to encourage them to support the changes.

We'd love to get behind this campaign but as ever we said we’d ask you what you thought - so please let us know by adding your thoughts here or voting YANBU for ‘Yes please I’d like Mumsnet to support this campaign’ and YABU for ‘No, I don’t think Mumsnet should support this campaign’. (Apologies for using the AIBU metric for this but it’s the best way we have at the moment to get a snapshot survey of people who’ve read the OP.)

Big thanks

[Nikhedonia]

Please, please, please support this campaign.

We really cannot consent to this.

[Thelnebriati]

Voting stands at approx 1121 in favour to 35 against.

[BIWI]

So by my maths, there are 35 posters who don't agree.

Yet I note how few of them (probably 34 of them) aren't prepared to come on the thread to say why.

Fucking cowards.

[Duffmcstockings]

Err...yes

[MRex]

Don't forget many of us can't vote because mumsnet won't let us vote without accepting spam. You can probably find 3% of people who'll support pretty much anything.

[C0RA]

Also the vote system doesn’t work on some tablets .

[ErrolTheDragon]

Also the vote system doesn’t work on some tablets .

Just open the thread in a browser as I described upthread. I usually use the app on an iPad but it only takes a moment to find the thread in the browser if it's something I CBA to vote on.

I'd hope people could manage that, and maybe spend a moment switching a preference on and off again if necessary... or tbh even putting up with a few unwanted emails from MN (not really 'spam') for something like this.

[SoupDragon]

I'd hope people could manage that

I'd hope MNHQ were capable of reading a thread.

[SoupDragon]

It is quite clear from the voting results for those who can easily vote what the result is anyway. If it was at all close it would be far more important to faff about with switching preferences/browser/device/whatever.

[wherethetamethingsare]

Yes. Of course.

[RandomWordsandaNumber5]

Yes of course MN should support it.

[QualityFeet]

Obviously

[ErrolTheDragon]

I'd hope MNHQ were capable of reading a thread.

I'm sure they are, and will. As you say, the result is overwhelmingly supportive so it doesn't matter too much. But, if any tablet user wants to vote then it's really not difficult.

[ChattyLion]

Of course you should! Women are people, aren’t they? Absolutely yes please do this MNHQ.

Also to say here because I hope that she will see this, that Fiona MacKenzie is one of my absolute heroes both for starting We Can’t Consent to This and for running the campaign so brilliantly to change the system and to protect women and girls.

WCCTT and the legal and social changes needed will help to honour the memories of those women killed and help to protect all of us and our daughters by raising this issue as widely as possible. This is not only about giving justice where it is being shockingly denied by an elevation of men’s sexual rights. We have a terrible cultural problem, those statistics show. Thank you Fiona and everyone involved. Thanks MNHQ for taking this on too.

[Xenia]

I now claim the prize as the bravest person on MN!

I hope we can remain in a UK where people can have all kinds of views and express them freely. However as I said above in my post this will be a popular cause so one MN may well want to take on.

[TooSadToSay]

Yes! Thank you Fiona

[PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock]

I hope we can remain in a UK where people can have all kinds of views and express them freely.

Do you feel the same about racism,sexism,homophobia,disablism?

[Oxyiz]

I'm with Xenia on that - I'm uncomfortable with blocking all speech or free thought, even if we feel some things are distasteful or horrible. It doesn't help to just no-platform others.

Just look at the current "transphobia" debate where people are demonised for not going along with groupthink. Or the shock everyone here felt about Brexit as many people had apparently hidden their feelings until the vote.

It's better that we are allowed to talk about things and hopefully come to understand other points of view to come up with more realistic solutions to problems.

And free speech doesn't mean lack of consequences of course.

[FannyCann]

Great post ChattyLion and I echo thanks to Fiona. It terrifies me that my daughters have to negotiate dating in an age where men think violence in sex is normal.

[Xenia]

This is not a thread on which it is worth my putting any more views than those I did about the existing case law above.

I agree that free speech is not without consequences where it breaches a law eg law of libel and that kind of thing. Anyway as I said this will be a popular campaign for MN to adopt.

[Lemonyfuckit]

100% yes. Thank you.

[lottiegarbanzo]

Why are people talking about freedom of speech? Say what you like. The issue at play is freedom to murder. It that a freedom you want to defend?

[ShandlersWig]

100% support this.

[mingetout]

Yes!

[MrsKCastle]

MNHQ, so glad to see this.