MNHQ here - should we support the campaign to end ‘rough sex’ defences?

[JustineMumsnet]

Hello

As lots of you will already know because their campaign originated on Mumsnet, the group We Can’t Consent To This has been running a campaign to end ‘rough sex’ defences - and we’d like to know what you think about MNHQ signing up as a supporter of their
campaign.

Their aim is to end a situation in which defendants can claim that the death of or injury to a woman was caused by ‘consensual sex games gone wrong’.

They say:

‘We’ve now found 60 UK women who’ve been killed by men who claim a sex game gone wrong - and in the last 5 years the defence was successful in 7 of the 17 killings of a woman which reached trial, with the man being found not guilty or receiving a manslaughter conviction. We've found many more women injured in what the accused men claim was consensual sexual violence.
Yet more women tell us it’s now commonplace to be assaulted and abused by men they’re dating, with 38% of UK women under 40 reporting being assaulted - choked, slapped, gagged or spat on - in otherwise consensual sex. That equates to 3.6 million women under 40 in the UK who have experienced unbidden violence in sex - and we know that women over 40 experience this too.
We do not believe that women can consent to their grievous injury or death, and will campaign until claiming this is no longer a useful defence.’
We Can’t Consent To This is currently lobbying to tackle these ‘rough sex defences’ by adding amendements to the Domestic Abuse Bill that is going through Parliament, meaning that now is the time to get writing to MPs to encourage them to support the changes.

We'd love to get behind this campaign but as ever we said we’d ask you what you thought - so please let us know by adding your thoughts here or voting YANBU for ‘Yes please I’d like Mumsnet to support this campaign’ and YABU for ‘No, I don’t think Mumsnet should support this campaign’. (Apologies for using the AIBU metric for this but it’s the best way we have at the moment to get a snapshot survey of people who’ve read the OP.)

Big thanks

can't believe we are even having to join a campaign. People can still get their kicks, they'll just not be allowed to murder their partner, what's not reasonable about that!!!?

Absolutely 100% yes!

I just cannot see how anybody gets off with this as an excuse.

You are right. They don't - its nonsense. So many people are very gullible.

MN - support the campaign if you wish, but it'll be your waste of time, there is no murder defense based on consent.

Yes! No doubt. Start a petition and we will all sign.

It is used both as a defense to reduce a murder charge to manslaughter, and by the CPS as a reason to not even attempt a prosecution.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cps-backed-off-assault-charge-over-fear-of-rough-sex-defence-nk6ghgcs8

No, lack of intent is the defense - not consent.

Look up the Natalie Connolly case and then say something doesn't need to change

Not a good case for your argument. The forensic evidence was unclear that whatever injuries Broadhurst caused on her, actually resulted in her death. The sentencing remarks of the Judge are online here. His conviction was because having gotten into that state - together with the drink and drugs, he left her to her fate.

The account of that night/morning by the Judge doesn't tally with the accounts given in Parliament.

No brainer, surely we/you should support?

I'd have thought MNHQ would best advised to seek legal advise from a reputable firm of solicitors specialising in criminal law as to the existence or otherwise of this defence AND whether the amendments being currently proposed to the Domestic Abuse bill make any sense.

A HUGE yes!!

yes!!!

@sawdustformypony
Whenever there's a thread on this topic up you pop like clockwork to tell us all why we are all wrong. It's getting a bit boring.

Fact: Women are dying. Men are either getting off Scot free or with a reduced sentence.

This thread asks if Mumsnet should support a campaign around this, which will hopefully give some sort of better legal protection to women: if it doesn't actually protect them from harm at least they may get justice should the worst happen.

If you don't think Mumsnet should support this say so.

I think you are somewhat out numbered by about 400+ positive replies but that's fine, negative replies are invited as well as positive. A No will do.

So jog on with your arguments and lectures. Enjoy your rough sex or whatever it is you get off on. Start your own thread to tell us all where we are going wrong. I'm sure we will all fall over ourselves in the rush to hear the pearls of wisdom you have to offer.

Absolutely, yes!

Please throw your considerable weight behind this campaign.

More applause for FannyCann

Yes please join the campaign

Yes of course

Yes. Support the campaign. It's awful enough that violence during sex is so mainstream that men are feeling they are entitled to it and women are feeling they should expect it.

To stop men from killing women and essentially blaming the victim (because 'she said I could' is connected to 'she liked it' and brings the victims sex life up to imply she deserved it') doesn't require a second thought.

MN throw your full weight behind this campaign, it's going to need big hit support to get through.

Absolutely yes, please do support this fully.

Yes

100% yes

lack of intent is the defence

The intent is to restrict a person's oxygen.

An entirely foreseeable outcome is that this would cause serious brain damage or death.

This doesn't change just because you are having sex with them.

We are just supposed to accept that men cant be expected to control themselves beyond a certain point and they cant be held responsible for what they do.

Fuck. Off. With. That. Bullshit.