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MNHQ here - should we support the campaign to end ‘rough sex’ defences?

535 replies

JustineMumsnet · 04/06/2020 12:21

Hello

As lots of you will already know because their campaign originated on Mumsnet, the group We Can’t Consent To This has been running a campaign to end ‘rough sex’ defences - and we’d like to know what you think about MNHQ signing up as a supporter of their
campaign.

Their aim is to end a situation in which defendants can claim that the death of or injury to a woman was caused by ‘consensual sex games gone wrong’.

They say:

‘We’ve now found 60 UK women who’ve been killed by men who claim a sex game gone wrong - and in the last 5 years the defence was successful in 7 of the 17 killings of a woman which reached trial, with the man being found not guilty or receiving a manslaughter conviction. We've found many more women injured in what the accused men claim was consensual sexual violence.
Yet more women tell us it’s now commonplace to be assaulted and abused by men they’re dating, with 38% of UK women under 40 reporting being assaulted - choked, slapped, gagged or spat on - in otherwise consensual sex. That equates to 3.6 million women under 40 in the UK who have experienced unbidden violence in sex - and we know that women over 40 experience this too.
We do not believe that women can consent to their grievous injury or death, and will campaign until claiming this is no longer a useful defence.’
We Can’t Consent To This is currently lobbying to tackle these ‘rough sex defences’ by adding amendements to the Domestic Abuse Bill that is going through Parliament, meaning that now is the time to get writing to MPs to encourage them to support the changes.

We'd love to get behind this campaign but as ever we said we’d ask you what you thought - so please let us know by adding your thoughts here or voting YANBU for ‘Yes please I’d like Mumsnet to support this campaign’ and YABU for ‘No, I don’t think Mumsnet should support this campaign’. (Apologies for using the AIBU metric for this but it’s the best way we have at the moment to get a snapshot survey of people who’ve read the OP.)

Big thanks

OP posts:
Nairobiblue · 05/06/2020 17:51

Count me in to this campaign.

bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg · 05/06/2020 17:51

Absolutely please back this. No one can consent to being killed. The man who chooses to choke his partner takes full responsibility for her safety and the law should hold him accountable.

sashagabadon · 05/06/2020 17:55

100% yes

dubiousdecision · 05/06/2020 18:03

Yes absolutely it is so important to get the message through to men that 'rough sex' to the point of severe internal damage or death is a criminal offence !

I'm from Northern Ireland and was completely disgusted at how many men tried to justify the actions of certain rugby assholes ! They may have gotten away with rape but consensual or not they caused physical harm to a young woman and that should be enough to convict !

How many men would be horrified if mid sex their penis was snapped by a woman who thought they would like it because her last partner liked it 'rough' ?

sawdustformypony · 05/06/2020 18:05

The intent is to restrict a person's oxygen

I have no idea how & why someone would have a sexual fetish around strangling, but when it comes to the law on murder, the 'intent' to convict someone of murder is 'the intent to kill'.

As to the mechanics of strangling someone in order to cause their deaths, I'd have thought it would be like you see in film & tv fiction - but I recently came across this exchange in a court case between a defence barrister and a forensic expert witness - discussing injury to something called the vagus nerve.

"Q. So it rather looks as if pressure to the neck is a pretty dangerous business?

A. It - certainly from my practice I know and from reports recorded in the forensic literature, there is no safe way to squeeze someone's neck. It always carries with it the risk of this stimulating these receptors and producing this vagal response.

Q. We can all understand that if you are choking someone, in the sense that you are restricting either the blood flow or the airflow in either of the first two ways, the vascular or the respiratory are potential ways of strangling someone but it is going to take time?

A. Yes.

Q. And there may be some sort of struggle or the opportunity to say: "I can't breathe"?

A. Yes.

Q. What about the vagal inhibition method, how does that affect that scenario?

A. If it kicks in at the level that we have mentioned, where there is a severe effect on the heart, causing it to slow right down or causing it to beat abnormally or causing it to stop, there is no prior warning to that; that will occur out of the blue.

Q. And is the situation therefore that someone may literally drop dead?

A. They may literally drop dead with the pressure being applied to their neck, and there are recorded cases of that occurring within the forensic literature."

Helpel · 05/06/2020 18:31

Yes, support 100%

Mawbags · 05/06/2020 18:33

DO YOU HONESTLY HAVE TO ASK?!

Yes!!! Angry

TheHighestSardine · 05/06/2020 18:58

Yes. Surprised there was ever any question.

FloraGreysteel · 05/06/2020 19:03

Yes please do.

Voxx · 05/06/2020 19:06

Yes. This would have my full support.

farmertom · 05/06/2020 19:09

Yes, please do

JackiFazaki · 05/06/2020 19:09

sawdustformypony ODFOD.
We already know. We see it for what it is, and the people peddling it, for what they are.
That's why we are supporting the campaign.

Binterested · 05/06/2020 19:13

Yes please.

NewYearNewTwatName · 05/06/2020 19:42

Men should be legally put on notice that choking which leads to even accidental death, even from consensual acts of choking, even if she begged for it she didn't will still be murder, and punished accordingly

I came on to say the same.

if you take part in this you should be responsible for the death or serious injury inflicted on the other person. You should know if you risk play this game and it 'goes wrong' you will be convicted of murder.

it reminds wasn't there weird case a canable years ago? were someone consented to be eaten or something.

if you can't consent to assisted suicide you can't consent killed during sex.

if you are found to have helped some one commit suicide. You are done for murder

if you play a game were someone can literally drop dead by your hands, you should be done for murder.

You cannot consent to be killed in this country. Full.stop.

NewYearNewTwatName · 05/06/2020 19:45

should have proof read Hmm before posting. scrap the cannibal bit.

and here's a link about assisted suicide
www.politics.co.uk/reference/euthanasia

Pixilicious · 05/06/2020 19:46

Yes of course, why wouldn't you??

bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg · 05/06/2020 20:20

there is no safe way to squeeze someone's neck

Exactly. There's no safe way to point a loaded gun at someone, and if someone does so deliberately and their victim dies, the shooter should be done for murder.

There is no accidental way to strangle someone during sex. All sexual choking is deliberate. If you choke someone and they die, you should be done for murder. Not manslaughter, murder.

So get lost Sawdust, your own quoted evidence proves that the courts are failing women.

WashYourFins · 05/06/2020 20:21

Yes, please do.

MilleniumHallsWalledGarden · 05/06/2020 20:31

*Q. And is the situation therefore that someone may literally drop dead?

A. They may literally drop dead with the pressure being applied to their neck, and there are recorded cases of that occurring within the forensic literature.*

So don't put your hands around someone else's throat. Easy.

runningon · 05/06/2020 21:32

Yes please!

withinacceptabletolerances · 05/06/2020 22:07

Yes please

77wasmyyear · 05/06/2020 22:31

Please

ShowPicturesOfLifeNotDeath · 05/06/2020 22:38

Yes of course, what possible good reason could anyone have to not support this campaign? That such a defence has ever been given the time of day in court is an insult to humanity.

LesbianMummies · 05/06/2020 22:41

Absolutely yes! Who on earth has said no, crazy.

MoltoAgitato · 05/06/2020 22:47

Yes, yes, you must support this!

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