All lives matter

[Scoobyboob]

I’ve disabled voting because today has been a lot already! I can’t deal with seeing another such stark display in % or how few people support BLM.
Is there a black Mumsnet section? I could do with somewhere to discuss race with other BAME people and Allies that doesn’t get hijacked with

•all lives matter
•what about...
•I’m oppressed too
•white people are suffering as well
•if black people would just...

Happy to hear suggestions for other forums as well. I don’t think Mumsnet is standing against racism, so i’m happy to flounce to get what I need. Which certainly isn’t the silencing of black voices whilst overt racism goes unchecked!

Hi Justine 👋 and fuck off Karen!

I’m genuinely in some quandary and would like to learn.

Disclosure: I’m of white but non-British heritage.

I accept that whites have inherent privilege as they are not systematically discriminated against.

I accept that even disadvantaged whites (eg homeless people) still have white privilege because even with their difficulties they are not being discriminated against because of their skin colour. Those who point out that a rich black person is more privileged than such a person is missing the point that the rich black person still faces race based barriers.

I accept that an “I’m colour blind so I’m not racist” attitude is simplistic as we can’t be colour blind while racism is a real thing.

I accept that “All lives matter” misses the point- white people aren’t being targeted and killed by police disproportionately and based on skin colour.

I accept that, culturally, white people are likely to be subconsciously racist even if they are not consciously racist or want to be racist.

But here is my issue:

White silence is compliance with racism.

But...

White person speaking out creates a “white savour” problem.

My question: what are white people supposed to do to make the world a better place?

I would like to hear the views of Black people on that issue, please.

It's not about me. It's about women, they are half the worlds population. Misogyny isn't just 'hurt feelings' as you very well know.

None of this would be a debate if the OP had left out the sexist slur. My personal hurt feelings are irrelevant, it's class based oppression.

Others being racist towards you is wrong. It doesn't give you the right to be sexist towards white women in return. 'But racists do worse things than namecalling' is absolutely true - but it also doesn't justify sexist slurs.

The 'Karen' meme, incidentally, was started on Reddit by a misogynist man whose ex-wife was named Karen, not by black women.

It's not about me. It's about women, they are half the worlds population. Misogyny isn't just 'hurt feelings' as you very well know.

Start another thread to discuss those issues then. You are taking away from the discussion at hand and making the focus on you and your own agenda. Black people are dying because of their skin colour, institutional racism is still going alive and well and that is what we are discussing not your hurt feelings at the term "Karen".

There are so many racist posters on here but they think because they don’t say the N word or have a black friend it can’t possibly be them who is the racist.

I hate the idea that we have to segregate but I tell you what, the majority of users really don’t give BAME users a choice.

One, a few years ago said she doubted i was black because I so said I was Irish. OKAY.

@BankofNook thank you for the cartoon. This has really helped me understand some of the conversations over the last few days.

As I said in the post you cropped, my own hurt feelings are irrelevant. Sexism is class based oppression.

I'm able to discuss sexism without chucking in racist slurs because I'm so angry. Racist slurs are acceptable... never. Under any circumstances.

So I won't use them, nor would I ever want to.

And fuck off Karen was said on this thread. Threads about threads aren't allowed.

@BlackBucketOfCheese

There are so many racist posters on here but they think because they don’t say the N word or have a black friend it can’t possibly be them who is the racist.

I hate the idea that we have to segregate but I tell you what, the majority of users really don’t give BAME users a choice.

One, a few years ago said she doubted i was black because I so said I was Irish. OKAY.

A long time ago I taught a girl who was half Irish half Irish volunteered to tell us about her experience in a class on race and identity. The Irish side of the family were pretty outright racist but, ‘not you obviously’ish about it. I appreciated her being willing to talk about it with the class and it opened up some really interesting discussions on identity.

Most schools I’ve taught at are probably way more diverse than national averages but less so than inner London. People are aware of racism and loudly anti overt forms of it but it’s still a challenge to create a space in which people find it comfortable to really talk about racial issues.

I also worked in an fe college with massively above average levels of bame students but largely white middle class lecturers who were terrified of handing students bringing up controversial or sensitive topics around religion or ethnicity.

We need to get better as a society at talking about things rather than brushing them under the carpet out of fear. What the college needed was a much more diverse staff and to examine why they weren’t attracting applicants from the communities their students were from.

Half Irish half Jamaican!

@MorrisZapp

As I said in the post you cropped, my own hurt feelings are irrelevant. Sexism is class based oppression.

I'm able to discuss sexism without chucking in racist slurs because I'm so angry. Racist slurs are acceptable... never. Under any circumstances.

So I won't use them, nor would I ever want to.

Once again, start your own thread about your own issues and problems. We are not discussing sexism on here.

This thread contains sexism, and mumsnet do not allow threads about threads.

So the only place I can discuss 'fuck off Karen' is on the thread it appears on. I'll leave it with you now as you're not responding to the content of my posts and it's probably dull as shit for other users listening to me repeat myself.

How is you making a thread up about your personal dislike of the phrase "Karen" a thread about a thread? you do realise it's used elsewhere than this thread.

@MorrisZapp OK bye, Karen

Yeah it is @MorrisZapp 👋 bye

Ffs it's like seeing someone advocating for women's aid and saying "well sometimes men are subject to domestic abuse". Yes they are but it doesn't detract from the need for women's aid does it?

^This exactly. The whatabouttary on Mumsnet recently has been at a level I've never seen before. We know other groups have had it tough but why can't we just listen to black people talking about their own struggles with racism without deflecting onto other issues?

Taking offence at Karen is not about having feelings hurt. It just shows a level of hypocrisy to object to prejudice whilst condoning and using a slur.

It’s not just mn it’s everywhere. It’s almost like there’s been a deliberate push to make talking meaningfully about any issue impossible. Far better to have people squabbling than able to talk and organise.

I note how the protests have been invaded by agent provocateurs to escalate violence to muffle voices behind and give out the bad people breaking stuff lazy takeaways instead of the real issues.

why can't we just listen to black people talking about their own struggles with racism without deflecting onto other issues?

True! Why can't people just start threads about that, instead of ending their post completely unnecessarily with Fuck off Karen and perpetuating an offensive stereotype at the same time?

Your 'fuck off Karen' means I'm not even interested in your thread, despite the fact that you may have made some interesting points.

You're telling people you're fed up with racism, whilst in the same sentence being sexist. So your words have lost their power.

Fighting institutionalised racism requires the compliance of white people, wrong though that is. And right there, you lost support of many women (who are probably named Karen, it is a popular name, and there are many of us).

I’m feeling angry RTFT feelings now. I was offended by the Karen thing but this thread is beginning to exemplify where it comes from.

TheHoneyBadger

I suppose you're trying to say 'Karens' are generally racist? I don't really understand your post.

I'm a Karen. I'm not racist. I do object to the prejudice which currently accompanies the use of my name. Someone who practices prejudice, I have no time for, whether they are black or white.

The thread is about racism.

Yes the OP said fuck off karen. She is angry and she’s entitled to that given how upsetting current events are and the levels of racism she’s put up with in her life and more recently on mn from white women.

Yes it hurts your feeling but if I was watching women being murdered by male cops live on tv then having to listen to it justified or downplayed or turned into another subject then fuck off men and their fucking handmaidens is the least I’d be saying.

Try some empathy. Just stop and genuinely find a way into her shoes for a minute.

To all those pissed off at the Karen term, you have got it easy. Imagine how it must feel to all the BAME community growing up with much worse terms and I can assure you, the same people pissed off about Karen likly didn't care about all the racial slurs POC face daily.

@TheHoneyBadger

The thread is about racism.

Yes the OP said fuck off karen. She is angry and she’s entitled to that given how upsetting current events are and the levels of racism she’s put up with in her life and more recently on mn from white women.

Yes it hurts your feeling but if I was watching women being murdered by male cops live on tv then having to listen to it justified or downplayed or turned into another subject then fuck off men and their fucking handmaidens is the least I’d be saying.

Try some empathy. Just stop and genuinely find a way into her shoes for a minute.

Well said and I totally agree. Sadly I doubt you will be heard on here. As guessed, this thread has now derailed onto all the poor white privaledged women who have had their precious feelings hurt.