Friend's affair - AIBU to get involved?

[NoseyfriendNC]

I am the first to say to anyone to never get involved in someone else's relationship as you end up being the bad guy usually but I feel like I can't just sit by and watch, so I need you guys to help me decide whether I should get involved or not.

Background - Good friend of many years. She is very sensitive and I am quite outspoken - so I am extra careful when giving my opinion. She has been married for 10 years with 3 kids and is early 30s. I don't hate her DH but don't like him much either (never say or show this) as he is grumpy, quite selfish and I believe financially controlling. They don't get on great and basically live separate lives.

She has been having an 'emotional' affair (says they haven't done anything sexual yet but would like to) for about 6 months. I thought it would die down thanks to lockdown but it has become worse and more intense. She sees no-one else nor goes into shops as she is so worried about the virus but happily still meets him. She doesn't have anyone else to talk to so I have to hear about it all the time. I've told her I think it is wrong and she will get caught and she just says she doesn't care. I say the new man is not good enough for her and she will say I don't know him like she does etc - I am sick of hearing about it but I like her telling me things to make sure she is staying safe.

My reasons for wanting to get involved:

1. She has a good life - her DH brings in the majority of the money and deals with everything (bills, shopping, childcare, etc) I personally think he is quite controlling as she doesn't get a say in these things but she is also the type to not want any of this responsibility and I would worry how she would cope alone as she has never had to deal with adulthood really. She has no bank account of her own and all the bills, car, rent agreement etc is in her DH's name.

1. I do not like/trust the new man she is involved with.

She has told me many examples where he has been plain rude but I just get a strange feeling about him. I have asked what his last name is and she won't give it to me (I'm not sure she knows it). She was upset as he told her which house he lived in and said he lived alone - then she found out he lived in a completely different area with his brother - his excuse was he's had to rent his 4 bedroom home to move in with his brother in a 1 bed flat as the brother has gone through a bad break up. He doesn't work. He is into every conspiracy theory going. This is fine but she believes everything he says - it started out that he would say not to eat certain foods so she stopped, then it started with speaking to anyone on the phone as the government is listening in (she doesn't have his number anyway) and now it is not shaving pubic hair as its part of some ritual or conspiracy. They only meet during the night and usually in a field - I ask her what they do and she said they look for aliens. Something doesn't sit right with me about this man and I am worried about her safety. Everything I say she has an answer for and believes everything he says without question (he said no-one has died from COVID-19 and we know someone who did and was confirmed by the hospital that this was the case but now she is saying that it's not real and it's a cover-up etc). She is usually not like this at all. Not only is she married but her personality is changing.

Sorry for the long thread. I didn't want to drip-feed.

YABU - Do NOT get involved and leave her to it.
YANBU - DO get involved and try and stop it.

@NoseyfriendNC

Also just to be clear - I would never actually tell the DH but I was wondering whether to threaten it so she would snap out of the fantasy and make a decision.

It is understandable to be frustrated with someone who is stuck and making the same mistakes over and over, but this really wouldn't be a good idea. It might be painful for you to hear, but if you were to take this action you would also be controlling your friend (it sounds like she already has plenty of people doing this to her!) You would be making a threat to manipulate her course of action.

Perhaps, you could disconnect from this situation a little bit? Of course you should remain her friend and be there to listen to her and provide support if/when things go wrong, but it sounds like her situation is causing you a lot of distress too. You are not responsible for her and she will have to make her own choices and face the consequences.

I ask her what they do and she said they look for aliens. Something doesn't sit right with me about this man

Understatement of the century.

if you were to take this action you would also be controlling your friend

I have never thought about this actually.
In relationships we are the complete opposites, she is very submissive it does frustrate me as I have said if this new man really liked you he would be complimenting you or doing nice things etc. but maybe I am too focused on her behaving like I would which is a controlling thing to do.

He has quite far-right opinions, doesn't like women very much, likes the sound of his own voice and doesn't like her or anyone else having their own opinion and is into sexual things like S&M - so I have built a picture of him in my head and don't like him but that is based on my own opinion and not hers so I do need to start thinking that just because he is not my type doesn't mean he's not hers.

There are two scenarios:

A messaging app? That's it?

As if he would turn around and say 'yes, I'm gay and that's my boyfriend'

Maybe slowly start helping her to realise how a great relationship is built on honesty so she starts questioning things on her own. It sounds like she doesn't have a healthy idea of what an adult relationship is so all this attention is intoxicating. So for example, ask her what her plans are? Does she want to leave her family for him to create a new life together? She needs to understand that if that happens she needs to have an open discussion with her new man. Or suggest she surprises him by putting a card through the building's letterbox addressed to him by his first name, and see what his reaction is.

Just little non invasive things that make her slowly realise that something is not quite right about him.

It's a long game but there's not much else you can do. She knows that even if you threaten to tell her husband you won't do it.

What does give me peace of mind is that they are alone in a field at night and no-one knows where she is or who she's with which could be dangerous but if he wanted to hurt her physically then I think he would have done that already so maybe I am worrying too much.

I had a friend(s) who started emotional and physical affair with another friend(B). I told her(s) I didn’t agree but she continued telling me about it. I don’t like her husband and could see why she was reaching out for someone else. But the person(b) who was having an affair with has a lovely wife and child.

I’m no longer close with either one because they started integrating their families children/spouses all now friends whilst they carry on. Makes me feel gross but I have never got involved because I don’t want to be responsible for breaking all their children’s hearts. Hypocritical because I’d want someone to tell me if it was the other way round 😂

Just little non invasive things that make her slowly realise that something is not quite right about him.

I think I was too out-spoken which made her defend him even more. So I could try and stay out of it more but drop in little things to make her realise it on her own. She got him a present and asked for his address and he said to have it sent to her address and then she can give it to him in person.

Makes me feel gross but I have never got involved because I don’t want to be responsible for breaking all their children’s hearts. Hypocritical because I’d want someone to tell me if it was the other way round

Yes this is exactly me. I don't want to be responsible for breaking up a family but I would definitely want to know myself!

There is no doubt that her circumstances are alarming so your concern is very understandable and keeping an eye on all this would be a sensible thing to do. Your friend sounds like she seeks out controlling figures in her life, there is probably some reason why - but either way it is really her issue. The probability is, even if she wasn't with her DH or this OM, it would be someone else of a similar disposition. It seems like it is a pattern of behavior. Do you think you have a balanced friendship with her, or does it seem like she is constantly in trouble and you trying to help?

I don’t think she has a good life at all. She’s married to a mean spirited Scrooge like figure and has been since her early twenties so most of her adult life. She’s now having an ‘emotional affair’ with a loser who doesn’t work and believes in conspiracy theories. Nothing great about her life at all.

I wouldn’t bother getting involved though, your opening gambit is correct and it does usually just backfire. I’d take a step back from the friendship all together.

I was your friend last year, I'm ashamed to say.

My DH had been an absolute shit to me and my mental health was in the pits. When OM showed interest I jumped at the chance to enjoy myself and experience excitement again.

What I can tell you is no matter what you say to her she won't end things until she wants to - or she gets dumped.

There is no outside influence that will be able to sway her. If you issue an ultimatum about telling her husband, she'll just lie to you and say she isn't seeing him anymore. You don't want that because you'll want her to be able to confide in you if OM becomes dangerous/even more bizarre.

My OM was full of red flags and I did see them, but I was enjoying myself too much to care. Very selfish and stupid.

Much like your post, I had a good friend that was trying to talk me out of it and was talking complete sense. I just wouldn't hear of it.

It lasted eight weeks until i came to my senses and I broke things off. Those red flags came back to haunt me as I had to get the police involved in the end as he wouldn't leave me be.

My friend was there afterwards with the "I told you so" and I thanked her for standing by me and helping me see sense.

Basically all you can do is be there for her, at a distance if you like, and hope she comes to her senses sooner rather than later.

It doesn't sound like this affair is going anywhere, he's secretive for a reason so my guess would be he's involved with somebody else. I would be inclined to think it will fizzle out on its own.

She can't progress with somebody who won't even tell her his last name and lies about where he lives.

Yes I agree she has never really been single and relies heavily on other people. I think she likes the comfort of being married and is worried about breaking up with him and having no-one there to rely on. I have said the new man couldn't support her etc but she doesn't care at the moment. It is frustrating to watch her want to leave her DH who is often grumpy and quite controlling for someone who is very grump, very controlling, and is mid-40s and has no job and apparently never had a relationship.

She is gorgeous to look at and is a lovely person so she could do 100X better than either of them so from an outside perspective it is really weird. I did joke that if she was going to risk her marriage at least do it with someone decent but she says he is misunderstood and she wants to help him etc.

@Overduesleep - thank you for your post. It is nice to hear it from 'her' point of view. You are right that she won't listen to a word I say and she has an answer for everything that doesn't seem right. I think I will continue being there for her at a distance as you say, as I do think he may dangerous but me keeping on at her might make her become more secretive or push her closer to him. It definitely isn't going anywhere as he said he doesn't like children and she has 3 so that alone is not going to work. I hope you are happy in your relationship now.

She would potentially leave her DH for this man and get a full time job and STILL not get a bank account?! It's really not difficult to open a bank account which to me shows her complete lack of ability to do anything for herself/lack of independence

Yes it is a worry as she does nothing for herself and her own car is not even in her name and if it needs an MOT her DH will ring up and book it in. She says she is silly with money and will spend it on rubbish which is why she doesn't have a bank account which I used to think was a great idea but I've started to realise her DH makes it out like everything is too complicated so she ends up letting him sort everything out.

So you know zero about this man just as your friend knows zero about him

If you want to get involved offer to meet him but he might draw you in too
He must be some kind of con artist.

Just tell your friend there are better ways to leave her marriage
She is more capable than she thinks

Ask hercleading questions let her talk
Do you want to leave your husband?
What would that look like?
Where do see yourself and your life in 5 years? In 10?

But it's clear that her OM doesn't like kids, so he's hardly looking for a long-term relationship, is he? He certainly won't want to play stepdad.

I really feel for you because I see you do want to help . But I agree with the others the red flags are waving in her face and she does not want to see them. I had a friend like this and I to,d her on the first date the guy was a nutter , but she had every excuse under the sun and it took two years of her being taken for a ride financially and emotionally before she realised . So I think you may be wasting your breath . If you could do a bit of digging and find out the truth about him perhaps if he is married or something it might bring her to her senses but otherwise I would say to her you have made your opinion clear and you want to be her friend but you don’t want to talk about her emotional affair . And leave it at that .

I wouldn't get involved. At the moment, you are there to provide a bit of a reality check for her, plus you can keep half an eye on things, in case anything does escalate. If you try and break them up, you could alienate her, which could make things a lot worse. Just be there for her, and honest when you need to be, but probably non-committal most of the time.

Would you be able to persuade her to do the freedom programme? You could suggest that she does it alongside you so you can chat it through together. Otherwise she will always jump from one relationship to another.

I know hardly anything about him and she doesn't either. He has shown many red flags and a few times has refused to speak to her until she changes her ways to suit his views and I think this might make her want him more because she is scared to lose him.

I have asked her if she wants to leave the husband and she said she doesn't yet as she wants to see if she has a future with this guy - I think this is about the kids as he wouldn't have them live with him - but she said she doesn't care if she gets found out.

I agree that there is not much point in me getting involved as he's given her way too many red flags already and ignored or had an answer for them so nothing I can say will do any good.

Would you be able to persuade her to do the freedom programme?

She doesn't see a problem with either man.
Her DH - she is not good with money so she doesn't have a bank account. She doesn't understand car insurance etc so she lets him sort it out. He speaks to the school because he gets answers whilst she doesn't etc.

The new man - he thinks feminists/women who want equality are anti-men, it is scientifically proven that women should be submissive to men, she can't go to his because his brother has had a bad break up so doesn't want to rub it in his face etc

She is very gullible and would probably benefit from it but she doesn't see a problem with either of them so I doubt she would do it.

Does she have learning disabilities?
Or has just decided for an easy life to let dh do everything important

Ask her
If he dropped dead tomorrow
What then?

YANBU to be worried. Sounds like she'll just as likely turn up dead in a field one day (so keep the photo).

But you can't do anything about it. She's hellbent upon self immolation and it'll all happen soon enough once lockdown ceases.

TBH, if she's got that little grasp upon reality, the kids are probably safer with the controlling arsehole than her anyhow.

No she doesn't have any learning disabilities. The best way to describe her would be ditzy and gullible. I will ask her as I don't think she looks to the future much which could be part of her problem.