Why was I BU? Race related.

[asixthofafathom]

I know I was BU and I am sorry about it, but I don't understand.

I have a black friend who is really articulate and passionate and posts a lot on social media about race - the perfect person, I thought, to ask what to read and what not to read at the moment, so as to avoid stuff that is inaccurate and offensive and hear only the authentic voice of those being oppressed.

She went ballistic and unfriended me, then proceeded to rant publicly about how offensive, selfish and insensitive my request was. Her friends chimed in and started calling me names.

I accept that I was wrong. I know it was poor timing, she doesn't owe me anything and it's not her job to educate me. But I genuinely just wanted to learn and understand and show willingness to listen rather than just assume that I understand an experience that I don't share.

Why was I so wrong to ask? Please don't bite my head off (unless I deserve it), I genuinely meant well and was trying to show respect, and now I feel awful.

She honestly sounds like hard work and a bit of a dick to me. I don't care what PPs have said. You said in your OP she posts a lot regarding issues that black people face so she clearly doesn't mind educating people. She's no friend and you've done nothing wrong IMO

You also said “if money is so tight”. Again, your economic privilege is obvious. Be sure to check it next time!

You don’t consider not being able to afford to waste £6 as money being tight? How strange.

But nice attempt to deflect from the reality that you don’t consider a topic important enough to research that you’re prepared to shell out for it and want everyone else to do the leg work for you. Instead you ask people who are asked ad nauseum to do it, then vilify them for having the temerity to claim they are exhausted by it. Sounds like privilege right there.

There was a black lady on Radio 5 this morning, a political activist. Don’t know her name, came in halfway through, but she basically advised white people to do exactly that, to ask a black friend to educate them and help them to see life from a black person’s point of view 🤷‍♀️

Erm, what did you wrong? She sounds mental, and slagging you off on social media sounds like bullying.

Some of the responses on here absolutely reek of white privilege. Centering on the feelings of white people, so much defensiveness.

It is not the job of a black person to educate white people. Imagine how much trauma they must be feeling collectively that still, regularly in 2020, people are persecuted and murdered just for sharing the same skin colour as they have. It must be exhausting. The last thing I would want is white people asking me for help. Google it. There is a ridiculous amount out there at the moment, go on Instagram, Twitter.. do the work yourself.

Yup, stay out of the whole arena. You don’t have the right to an opinion because this isn’t your life or your experience.
The most useful thing those who are not part of a targeted group can do is listen to them, and support change led by them. You don’t need to understand their reality, you never will. But you can use your privileges to provide support and apply pressure.

@Janaih

I didn't say it was a hobby. I said it was an interest, that apparently the OP's friend has spoken about repeatedly on social media. So it is reasonable to ask that person for directions to the best material on the subject. Because there's plenty of material and doubtless a lot of it is shit - so for a one-minute reply, the friend in question directs OP to stuff that will help her understand race relations better, quicker. Like a proper friend would.

It would be more unreasonable if OP had just picked a black friend at random who had shown no previous interest in discussing race relations.

As it is, we don't know it is the friend's life. We have no idea where she lives, what her history is. TBH, it seems off to automatically assume that all black people have experienced police brutality. If we must make assumptions, it seems reasonable to assume that on a UK-based site, the OP's friend will be based in the UK, which has much different race relations and policing than the US.

@BrainFart

Damn, this all seems like some bullshit.

It appears OP asked someone who knew more about a subject than her to direct her to some good resources to learn more about that subject, and that person over-reacted for whatever reason.

I trust the next time the people on this thread ask a friend for book recommendations, or restaurant recommendations, or any other sort of advice, they'll find it reasonable to be told that they should find it out for themselves, that their friend is not there to educate them, and that the friend no longer wishes to speak to them and will encourage other people to pile on.

The issue is why now? Racism has been around her whole life why today has she decided to 'educate herself'? There are plenty of books on race if you start googling they are there with reviews and everything. The OP has jumped on the bandwagon because it is trendy but can't even be bothered to look for herself. When it is no longer trendy, I doubt the OP will have read the books or if she will have even bought them.

@SimonJT

As a person of colour I’m sick of being asked to educate people about race, I may be brown but I am not your staff.

OP how would you feel if you men continually asked you for information on domestic violence and blamed womens actions for domestic violence.

On your point about how I would feel if men asked me about domestic violence (or other feminist issues) because they wanted to better understand, I would be only to happy to have the discussion. Other feminists would feel differently, and that’s ok too.

If they started blaming women for it, then no - but not sure the OP has suggested the black community are to blame for the way they are treated?

I am a black woman. I’m also articulate, well educated and extremely successful. It is not my job to educate white people about the challenges I encounter every day as a black woman.

The issue is why now? Racism has been around her whole life why today has she decided to 'educate herself'? There are plenty of books on race if you start googling they are there with reviews and everything. The OP has jumped on the bandwagon because it is trendy but can't even be bothered to look for herself. When it is no longer trendy, I doubt the OP will have read the books or if she will have even bought them.

We don't know OP's circumstances, but sure, let's get all wound up about why and accuse the OP. Perhaps it would be healthier to say "not ideal circumstances, but it's good that someone is showing an interest in understanding the issues from black people's POV because of this". Because the alternative is that the OP and others continue to ignore it. Is that better ?

I think you’ve obviously misjudged your level of friendship with this woman. She obviously didn’t feel comfortable discussing these issues with you. How well did you actually know her?

SoVeryLost The issue is why now? Racism has been around her whole life why today has she decided to 'educate herself'? “

Maybe because as I did she heard a black political activist advising white people to educate themselves (in the context of the US) on the radio?

I live in a small town in the North West of England. I have never never seen a black face here. My only black friends live in London and Taunton.
It is perfectly possible that some white people in the UK have grown up never knowing any black people.

Why is it offensive to want to understand another person’s perspective after years of simply not thinking about the issue because it isn’t a part of your daily life?

“What not to read “ so you can only cope with one version of events.

I can see her point, to an extent.

However, there are issues I have experienced that I wish more people who haven't experienced them understood. If someone asked me to recommend some decent reading material on the subjects (rather than just randomly google them and end up with any old stuff), I'd be pleased to be asked. I wouldn't want to have to sit down and design a study program for them because they can take that responsibility for themselves, but I'd be more than happy to point them in the right direction.

but she basically advised white people to do exactly that, to ask a black friend to educate them and help them to see life from a black person’s point of view

Demonstrating nicely how one does not speak for all.

@Chillipeanuts

SoVeryLost The issue is why now? Racism has been around her whole life why today has she decided to 'educate herself'? “

Maybe because as I did she heard a black political activist advising white people to educate themselves (in the context of the US) on the radio?

I live in a small town in the North West of England. I have never never seen a black face here. My only black friends live in London and Taunton.
It is perfectly possible that some white people in the UK have grown up never knowing any black people.

Why is it offensive to want to understand another person’s perspective after years of simply not thinking about the issue because it isn’t a part of your daily life?

That's fine but go and look first. Go to your friend if they are a friend and not a random you once sat in the pub with once and ask if that is a book they would recommend. Actually attempt to educate yourself, I have friends who if they asked for a book recommendation like the OP I would ignore as I know its so they can pretend to be interested in a topic, they would post pictures of the book to show everyone how interested they are and then would either keep the book on their bookshelf having never read it or throw it out as soon as charity shops reopen.

MintyMabel

Fair enough.

[quote DamnYouAutoCarrot]@Jangirl2018 nope, not salivating. Quite the opposite. I'm astounded by your baiting and prejudice quite frankly.

Couldn't point me to all these racist, salivating posts? Happy to be proved wrong by them.

Make your point, debate, discuss, enlighten.. Please bring something to the table, but don't lie. It does your argument no justice.[/quote]
Hard to when they have been deleted... Check through the thread there have been posts deleted in the first two pages.

You were well-meaning, if a bit virtuous and she sounds like a bit of a bully. YANBU.

I might be missing something, but surely the point of posting political views is to educate people. If you don’t want to share your perspective then don’t publicly air your views then get shitty when people want to discuss them.

I’m not black but I’m in a minority group and I view questions about my experience as an opportunity to open a dialogue and highlight how inequality and prejudice hides in plain sight sometimes.

You were insensitive OP but Imo your friend is being very dramatic and a bit of an idiot- she could have responded privately or ignored if she didn’t want to discuss; obviously it’s a painful time now and tension is high so that’s understandable.

She doesn’t owe you an explanation but she should have the common sense to differentiate between wilful ignorance and unconscious insensitivity.

One is curable and the other, sadly, isn’t.

Demonstrating nicely how one does not speak for all.

I don’t disagree, but it does explain why someone can believe they’re doing the right thing when another person would pick them up on it. Context is everything.

@RoosterPie I actually don't think domestic abuse is a good example.
Imagine, you've spent your whole life being treated less than, stopped and searched because you were young and black. Stopped in your car for no reason, but suspect its because you have a nice car. Told you only got your job because of positive discrimination. Told you have a chip on your shoulder when you talk to your peers who live in the same area drive the same car as you but they have never been stopped. Told racism doesn't really exist, told if you guys just behaved better you wouldn't have a problem. Then all of a sudden something (actually the thousandth thing to happen in public) happens to highlight all of the little things that you've experience is a real issue and all of your 'friends' who you've tried to talk about this before with come to you asking for book recommendations. Now, they want you to engage with them to 'help' them understand. It's all on their terms. Now I'm not saying that's what the OP did however, let us not pretend that is exactly what some people are doing.

I am a black woman. I’m also articulate, well educated and extremely successful. It is not my job to educate white people about the challenges I encounter every day as a black woman.

You are an absolute minority in my part of the world. I know of no black females in my bit of rural England. Best guess is you have no knowledge of farming. So why would I know any more about your struggles than ours with irrigation, crop pricing or rural poverty

All issues effect us both. Both need to understand the issues of the other.

[quote SoVeryLost]@RoosterPie I actually don't think domestic abuse is a good example.
Imagine, you've spent your whole life being treated less than, stopped and searched because you were young and black. Stopped in your car for no reason, but suspect its because you have a nice car. Told you only got your job because of positive discrimination. Told you have a chip on your shoulder when you talk to your peers who live in the same area drive the same car as you but they have never been stopped. Told racism doesn't really exist, told if you guys just behaved better you wouldn't have a problem. Then all of a sudden something (actually the thousandth thing to happen in public) happens to highlight all of the little things that you've experience is a real issue and all of your 'friends' who you've tried to talk about this before with come to you asking for book recommendations. Now, they want you to engage with them to 'help' them understand. It's all on their terms. Now I'm not saying that's what the OP did however, let us not pretend that is exactly what some people are doing.[/quote]
Fair point - I was only responding to the question raised by simonJT which was about domestic abuse.