Why was I BU? Race related.

[asixthofafathom]

I know I was BU and I am sorry about it, but I don't understand.

I have a black friend who is really articulate and passionate and posts a lot on social media about race - the perfect person, I thought, to ask what to read and what not to read at the moment, so as to avoid stuff that is inaccurate and offensive and hear only the authentic voice of those being oppressed.

She went ballistic and unfriended me, then proceeded to rant publicly about how offensive, selfish and insensitive my request was. Her friends chimed in and started calling me names.

I accept that I was wrong. I know it was poor timing, she doesn't owe me anything and it's not her job to educate me. But I genuinely just wanted to learn and understand and show willingness to listen rather than just assume that I understand an experience that I don't share.

Why was I so wrong to ask? Please don't bite my head off (unless I deserve it), I genuinely meant well and was trying to show respect, and now I feel awful.

[amyfarrowfowler]

Me and my black friend have just been speaking about recent events. He's turned around and said 'babe ya gotta stand up speak and educate, cos they ain't listening to us. You're our Ally speak up and educate we only want love.
And I will do this 100% for him and for all black people

[phoenixrosehere]

I just meant people shouldn’t be afraid of asking about something they don’t have experience of.

I agree, but OP said themselves that her friend posted countless post about the issue yet instead of going back to those post, she asked her directly at an emotional time. I understand OP asking for help but they were lazy to ask their friend instead of going back and looking at previous posts that this friend made.

[Iwalkinmyclothing]

Next step is to try and figure out how to help

I think the next step is you start calling yourself out, all the time, over and over. Not beating the shit out of yourself and wallowing in what a terrible person you are (and certainly not taking to SM to whine endlessly about the pain of recognising your white privilege at last and how sad it makes you as so many people seem to do), but forcing yourself to question your reactions and thoughts and actions. Calling your friends and colleagues on it too. Starting to speak up- when a conversation is triggering that "uh actually this is racist" feeling, saying so. Being willing to put up with your friends getting angry with you, laughing at you, dismissing you etc. The more you learn, the more you notice, and the more you become used to speaking out. Also, listening. Really listening, never deciding that ok, you've got it know, you have nothing more to learn.

[cyclingmad]

It was someone else but I understand what you are saying

[Lweji]

I don't think white people will ever grasp properly what it's like to live in a society that undermines you. As women we feel it as well, but white women in western countries still have it easy.
But I think that we should be able to understand white privilege. And at the very least to keep checking ourselves if our attitudes and actions contribute to it.

[Nonotthatdr]

@cycling

I think that was me, saying I would never understand....I thought I was supposed to accept that we as whites would never understand and that was the whole point - we can’t understand so we have to stop trying to As it’s insulting but that dosent mean we don’t care, we just can’t understand - it’s an impossible task but we have to apply ourselves

I’m not making much sense, I don’t think I’ve quite worked it out for me yet

[cyclingmad]

@Iwalkinmyclothing exactly, only on anothe thread someone just said i dont understand and will never understand...literally wtaf talk about bury your head in the sand and continue your privilege life...makes my blood boil

[Nonotthatdr]

@iwalkinmyclothing

Agree. You sum up I think where I am now. Next step is to try and figure out how to help

[Iwalkinmyclothing]

I don't think most white people actually want to know much. It's uncomfortable. Some post to complain that they can't get it right, but they don't seem to engage.

I agree. It is uncomfortable. The first time you actually get it, recognise your privilege, recognise the racism in much of what you have been taught, in some of your thoughts and biases, in the institutions you value and the culture you are a part of, it is fucking uncomfortable. You sit there, a person who has always said "but I'm not racist" and genuinely believed and meant it, and it makes you cold and sick. And you don't want to have these thoughts and feelings. So what do you do? For many people the answer is clear- you pretend none of it is true, you stop paying attention, you use your white privilege to run away from it all, because that is easier than accepting reality and having to actually face up to and stand against it.

[RaaRaaeee]

Lweji. That’s what needs to change isn’t it. It’s easy to look at police brutality in America and condemn it, but people are quite happy to metaphorically put their hands over their ears and not listen about everyday racial bias because they don’t want to accept that it happens in their own society, to their own friends. Its uncomfortable. It’s easier to tell yourself that your black friend who lives in an affluent area, who is highly educated and has a good job doesn’t ever experience racism, but that might not be the case, probably isn’t. It’s just rubbish. But that’s why people shouldn’t be just told to do their own research- it’s very easy to just hear what you want to hear.

[Lweji]

My experience on FB is that if I post a photo of my cat, almost anyone I'm friends with will like it.

If I post indignant news, such as this latest killing, covid, whatever, I get some likes.

When I share links to explain white privilege or race issues, I get very few likes, if at all.
It might have to do with FB algorithms, but it may not. I don't think most white people actually want to know much. It's uncomfortable. Some post to complain that they can't get it right, but they don't seem to engage.
Very few share anything about racism. One is married to a black woman. Others have mostly been virtue signalling about it.

[RaaRaaeee]

DeeCeeCherry - Yes of course people should use emotional intelligence and hear and gauge when someone doesn’t want to talk. I didn’t mean to imply people should force the issue against someone’s wishes. I just meant people shouldn’t be afraid of asking about something they don’t have experience of.

[DeeCeeCherry]

it’s very simplistic for people to be saying “for gods sake just look online if you want to learn”

RaaRaa it's not about it being very simplistic, you've missed the point. You need to 'hear' & gauge when someone does not want to talk about upsetting situations, and just respect that and leave it alone.

[DeeCeeCherry]

You should've Googled it, just like you might Google anything else you wanted info on. Info is right there at your fingertips, including book lists. I should think she's wound up by seeing people who look like her time and again brutalised and/or killed by the police. & If she watched that clip of George Floyd on the ground begging for his life, crying, calling for his mum, wetting & soiling himself whilst a psychopath cop slowly crushed his windpipe, then shes very likely traumatised too. & You likely aren't the only person that asked her. It gets irritating. You don't need to read stuff really to know what humanity and not being racist is. But if you do, just read it by yourself. It's the best way

[RaaRaaeee]

Lweji- fair point.

[Lweji]

@RaaRaaeee
But when you found those voices, presumably you listened to them. Or did you pretend they had said nothing and asked them for a good read?

[Lweji]

For what is worth, grammar and words are important because they convey meaning.
I work in science and we have to be very precise with what we write because otherwise it's a mess. We can't have two possible interpretations of the same sentence. And the onus is on the writer to make it clear.

Having said that, let's look at this sentence
""as a white women I just can’t understand how my black (and to some extent Asian) friends and family feel. I cannot comprehend their lived experience.""

The first parenthesis would lead to a sentence saying
"as a white women I just can’t understand how, to some extent Asian, and Black friends and family feel. I cannot comprehend their lived experience."

It's not a clear enough sentence and people can argue to the end of worlds if "to some extent" means Asian families "feel less" (whatever that is) or if you can't understand only part of what they feel, implying that you can understand them to some point, unlike black people.
In such situations, the writer should apologise and clarify what they wrote. That is all.

Ps- if I wasnt clear, my apologies.

[RaaRaaeee]

When my son was diagnosed with autism, I did a lot of my own research. The majority of the stuff written online and the narrative that’s prevalent in society it seems, is one that autism is ‘less than’; that it’s a bad thing; that the ultimate goal for improvement is to make the person act more NT to fit in; that the onus is on the person and their family to change rather than society to be more accepting. These messages are there all the time, they are not always explicit, but that does not mean they don’t exist. Actually, it was rather hard to find the voice of autistic people online, but when you do, what they have to say is very far from the mainstream view of autism, because only they can talk about their lived experience when the above is overwhelming societies view (even though most of society does not even know its being ableist and most of the articles written are by people who are not actively trying to inflict harm)
Yes, the onus should not have to be on black people to educate. Yes, it would also be nice if people cared about racism all the time, not just when something terrible happens. But it’s very simplistic for people to be saying “for gods sake just look online if you want to learn” They might look at a couple of misguided articles and be done- that’s never going to be as good as trying to understand from people who have a lived experience of racism. It would be sad if people who don’t really understand, feel like it’s wrong to ask.

[TheFencePainter]

However I think we are having an argument about grammar and syntax rather than racism.

That is exactly it. There was no me trying to silence ethnic minority. I have no reason to. I actually do not think the sentence was clumsy . If it were i would have bog issue understanding it with english not being my native language.

Again. I think it is unfair to accuse someone of racism when there was no racism only wrong reading comprehension. This will be shutting allies up soon too....

[Nonotthatdr]

@changeitupagain

Of course you have the right to call out racism. However I think we are having an argument about grammar and syntax rather than racism.

I wrote something that you interpreted differently to how I intended it to be read. I was concerned that if I did not acknowledge that the current situation affects black people more than other ethnic minorities then I would cause distress to some posters who have explained that this currently is a much more a “B” issue and not a “AME”. The post was something I spent time over trying to consider all aspects, the “extent” was in relation to how “AME” MIGHT be feeling less traumatised about the current situation than black people.

I have apologised and conceded that the sentence structure was clumsy, I still believe it reads as I intended but I can see that it could have been clearer. I wrote it to the best of my ability with written English and took a lot of care over it. It wasn’t lack of care but possibly lack of ability ( and the fundamental imprecise nature of the written word) which I have no way to change.

My comments about you thinking I am racist were in relation to my saying that I do try and understand how my family feel - I can’t achieve this but I do try. Your post brought up a lot of emotions in me - as I felt it was saying “stop trying to understand - you can never understand” which as I said isn’t an option for me - I refuse to accept that it is racist for me to try and understand to the best of my ability how my DD feels - being a mother is not racist.

[Cadent]

Hi everyone, I haven't disappeared but I haven't read your replies yet either. Felt really upset today after losing a friend, and have been reading up on the current situation. Just wanted to check in and say thank you for responding and I will read everything soon.

OP, I don't think you realise how apparent it is why your friend wants nothing to do with you.

[Smellbellina]

This is nothing more than an inflammatory post if ever I saw one.

[cyclingmad]

So OP posts that her friend often posts about racism etc and then she's upset when her friend is angry at her for asking for recommendations...which OP wouldn't need to do because she could just read her friends posts

OP comes back to the thread declaring how she is still so upset about her friend and hasnt read any of the posts on this thread...

Bit of a recurring theme here......so advice and information is being posted and OP isnt reasonf it but then expects when she is ready to pay attention to get private information given to her and for people to lend more of their time...

What a joke!

[mokapot]

Honestly go pick up a book rather than ask a mate.
Self education if you didn’t have it at school.
Racism against black people exists. PERIOD. It is not about you.

[saraclara]

OP, here's someone else who's had friends ask similar questions, and who's responded in an entirely different way. Good reading suggestions for the rest of us too.

twitter.com/victoriaalxndr/status/1266829408268095493

I’ve been getting a lot of questions from my non-Black friends about how to be a better ally to Black people. I suggest unlearning and relearning through literature as just one good jumping off point, and have broken up my anti-racist reading list into sections:
Then follows a list of reading material etc