To think the lockdown needs to end now?

[Fr0thandBubble]

I could understand a lockdown being imposed for a few weeks to make sure the NHS was up to capacity, but it’s gone well beyond that. The NHS now has lots of excess capacity and yet here we still are.

I am horrified by what has happened to our civil liberties, what it’s doing to our children’s education, what it’s doing to everyone’s livelihoods and mental health, what it’s doing to the economy, how people are not getting life-saving treatment for things like cancer, etc.

I don’t understand why people aren’t given the right to choose to self-isolate if they need to but for the rest of us to be allowed to get on with our lives and to take responsibility for ourselves.

I don’t understand why people who are not old and don’t have underlying health conditions are acting hysterically and why people have decided it’s OK to police other people’s behaviour and shout at them in the street.

I feel like I’m living in some kind of awful dystopian society.

I realise I’m in the minority here but does anyone agree with me?

dangerous to a tiny minority

The estimates say unchecked we could be looking at upwards of half a million dead. We are talking people

@attackedbycritters

If you are massively concerned about jobs and children, then use your brain

Option 1. Free for all now. High levels of virus remain i society for up to 2 years, destroying confidence which leads to poor econ9mic performance, high levels of illness which disrupts business, children traumatised losing parents and grandparents, nhs collapse an ever present danger, fresh lockdowns to prevent this,

Option 2. A bit more patience , test and trace up and running and a new normal that is close to the old normal so we can start rebuilding the economy

It's like painting woodwork...get the preparation right and you get a much better end result than if you try to rush the job

This is absolutely right, in my opinion, @attackedbycritters.

I don’t want a second peak to happen - and I can’t imagine that any of the NHS staff working in ICUs would disagree. I do understand how difficult the current situation is, how worried pexpel are, and how desperate they are for lockdown to end. But I honestly think it is better to be cautious in the short term rather than risking taking a big step backwards and undoing all the good we have done.

Sorry - people, not pexpel (whatever they are).

@milveycrohn Yes I agree with you.

I agree with you. GLOBALLY only about 370,000 have died out of 7.8 billion. In England 65% of those dying were over 75 and 41% over 85. 90% of the cases have had at least one underlying condition, mostly Alzheimer’s and dementia. (All these statistics valid as of today from office of national statistics). As of 1 May 37% of deaths were in care homes.

I know it’s sad if your granny who is otherwise quite sprightly dies at 85, but it’s a good age to reach (over the national average in fact) and both of my healthy grandparents have said they’d much rather go in 2-3 weeks from Covid than spend years in pain and losing their dignity by going from Alzheimer’s, stroke or cancer.

I know there are vulnerable people out there who are otherwise young and relatively healthy - but these people were already at risk from things like flu and norovirus and we don’t shut down our whole economy every winter just in case someone with asthma or cancer dies from it.

I too feel like we’re living in a dystopian world where the governments have decided to basically copy the first country’s response (China lockdown) irrespective of the actual risk or efficacy - test and trace is clearly a much more effective response. And now they are refusing to back down basically to save face - they’re acting like this is bubonic plague or Ebola when it’s really really not.

I can’t believe how little protest there has been about this. We were sold a story about ensuring the NHS could cope and I think most people bought into this, but now we seem to have moved without any discussion to a policy of saving lives from coronavirus at all costs, even if that means other people dying due to standard procedures being delayed and the long term destruction of our economy.

The funny thing is everyone I’ve spoken to about this, from liberal peers in their twenties to very conservative relatives in their seventies agrees with me and thinks it’s all gone on for too long, but no one in the press or on the streets is saying this, despite the obvious indications most of the public has given up following these rules for the sake of prolonging the lives of almost entirely old, unhealthy people.

Maybe I should start the movement...

It was estimated that people who died who are over 65 would have lived another 10 years

[quote Fr0thandBubble]@FlorenceinSummer I don’t mean to be flippant and obviously every death is sad but 40,000 dying “with” Coronavirus is not staggering.

I think approx 1400 people die per day (of other causes). And I think in 2014 something like 28,000 people died from the flu.

So in that context, 40,000 dying “with” Coronavirus isn’t many. And, yes, it may be true that many of those people who died would have lived for longer if they hadn’t had Coronavirus, given that 80% of those who have died were over the average life expectancy, the likelihood is that they wouldn’t have lived for much longer.[/quote]
Exactly.

Only 7% of the population have been exposed. If you lift lockdown completely the NHS would be massively overwhelmed. The virus hasn't gone away. Easing it slowly is what's sensible. Nice to know once you've hit average life expectancy your life no longer counts for as much. Fuck me.

Medical experts are saying not to ease lock down. I'm going to go with them rather than liberal 20 somethings.

Maybe you should stop being so fucking selfish.
Those old people are younger people's parents and grandparents.

I agree that it's about time people started taking responsibility for themselves. If you are on the vulnerable list - stay in. If you are very fit and healthy, do what you need to but take precautions.

We don't live in isolation, we rely on others for healthcare, services, goods, water, electricity and so on...The exceptionally vulnerable are in the region of two million, the vulnerable millions more including 1 in 5 of the workforce. How is that going to work? If the virus is allowed to spread unchecked then key industries will be affected by workers being off sick, in hospital, dying or in post-virus rehab. Not to mention the high numbers of NHS keyworkers who have already died and will go on to do so if rates of hospital admissions are allowed to peak again.

It's also incredibly high risk for the BAME community - and congratulations OP for your insensitivity in posting this on Blackout Tuesday - but then given the number of anti-lockdown posters who routinely use coded appeals to right-wing politics maybe that's not an issue?

So in that context, 40,000 dying “with” Coronavirus isn’t many. And, yes, it may be true that many of those people who died would have lived for longer if they hadn’t had Coronavirus, given that 80% of those who have died were over the average life expectancy, the likelihood is that they wouldn’t have lived for much longer.

Chilling in its callousness.

@notalwaysalondoner

I completely agree.

What has happened....?

@attackedbycritters

It was estimated that people who died who are over 65 would have lived another 10 years

Well no they wouldn't, obviously. The vast majority of people over 80 who died from Covid were rather unlikely to live a further 10 years judging by the average age of death in the UK. I do wish people were taught critical thinking at school or even just thought to engage their brain once in a while.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

So in that context, 40,000 dying “with” Coronavirus isn’t many. And, yes, it may be true that many of those people who died would have lived for longer if they hadn’t had Coronavirus, given that 80% of those who have died were over the average life expectancy, the likelihood is that they wouldn’t have lived for much longer.

Chilling in its callousness.

It's really not, but this is a very useful way of stifling debate. Well done.

I completely AGREE with you OP

But not as stupid as someone making up "facts", fortunately

Yeah except nobody is actually doing that, except you. "Most children are fine"

@attackedbycritters

It was estimated that people who died who are over 65 would have lived another 10 years

I'd love to see a link please!

Dom- quite.
That's what you get on these Borisbot threads.
They follow their leader blindly and fuck everybody else.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

So in that context, 40,000 dying “with” Coronavirus isn’t many. And, yes, it may be true that many of those people who died would have lived for longer if they hadn’t had Coronavirus, given that 80% of those who have died were over the average life expectancy, the likelihood is that they wouldn’t have lived for much longer.

Chilling in its callousness.

This isn't callousness, this is the factual reality of the situation. There is no sentiment in statistics.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

"Lockdown was to help the NHS, OP, you do realise that? Or maybe you'd rather there were corpses piled up in the streets like Brazil."

Could you please send me a link to this info? I read some Brazilians newspapers daily (to practice my Portuguese) and I'm not aware of this? Have many friends in that country and they did not mention anything about this as well? Thank you

This isn't callousness, this is the factual reality of the situation. There is no sentiment in statistics

Exactly. Why is that whenever anyone posts something truthful they are accused of being callous or cold? If I say smoking cause cancer, thats not being "callous" its being truthful and its a fact. Stating facts isnt chillingly callous FFS- what a load of utter twaddle

@TheCanterburyWhales

Dom- quite. That's what you get on these Borisbot threads. They follow their leader blindly and fuck everybody else.

If we don't lift the lockdown then the Government really is going to 'fuck everyone else' by allowing the economy to tank out.

I think I picked it up in the data and statistics thread, but not sure which one.

@TheCanterburyWhales

Dom- quite. That's what you get on these Borisbot threads. They follow their leader blindly and fuck everybody else.

I have actually never supported Boris. I've always voted labour. I don't think he's made the right decisions. I still think lockdown should be eased and then released. I still think children deserve an education.