To think the lockdown needs to end now?

[Fr0thandBubble]

I could understand a lockdown being imposed for a few weeks to make sure the NHS was up to capacity, but it’s gone well beyond that. The NHS now has lots of excess capacity and yet here we still are.

I am horrified by what has happened to our civil liberties, what it’s doing to our children’s education, what it’s doing to everyone’s livelihoods and mental health, what it’s doing to the economy, how people are not getting life-saving treatment for things like cancer, etc.

I don’t understand why people aren’t given the right to choose to self-isolate if they need to but for the rest of us to be allowed to get on with our lives and to take responsibility for ourselves.

I don’t understand why people who are not old and don’t have underlying health conditions are acting hysterically and why people have decided it’s OK to police other people’s behaviour and shout at them in the street.

I feel like I’m living in some kind of awful dystopian society.

I realise I’m in the minority here but does anyone agree with me?

Have we all forgotten the "save the NHS" mantra - that's what the lockdown was all about. And if numbers start to rise like they did before, we need another lockdown to protect the NHS for a second time.
Can people also understand that for the NHS to survive and function; society needs to be working and paying taxes. At the moment millions of people are facing unemployment and redundancy and the longer it goes on the millions will rise!

@TheCanterburyWhales

Dom- quite. That's what you get on these Borisbot threads. They follow their leader blindly and fuck everybody else.

Many or even most lockdown sceptics hate Johnson. Please try to use some critical thinking skills. Why don't you advance search me and see how much I despise Johnson.

Maybe you should stop being so fucking selfish.
Those old people are younger people's parents and grandparents.

And these young people who are going to have no jobs, a shit-ton of government debt to pay, and a life significantly poorer and shitter for years, are older people's great-great grandchildren. Actually all the older people I know have said this isn't worth it, they would rather get ill/die than have their grandchildren lose their jobs and houses.

The people dying of Covid had statistically the same chance of dying in the next year, so not long left to live on average - that's not callous, just fact.

But once again, it isn't just about deaths. A lot of people have been very unwell, some in hospital for weeks, others like me just coping at home. It doesn't just impact me, it impacts on my DH and DDs. Admittedly, it was flu that originally led to this last year, as it turned into pneumonia, which led to me suffering from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, which made me more vulnerable to COVID-19.

The flippancy about it only being a 'tiny minority' really gets to me. Yes it is a minority, but it impacts more people than just the person infected, it impacts on their family as well, even if they don't actually catch the virus.

I agree that the lockdown can't and shouldn't go on forever, I see my DDs missing school and seeing their friends and extended family. That's why I'm not refusing to send DD1 (11) to school, as I know this isn't fair on her. I'm sad that DD2 (8) can't, as she has close friends she's really missing.

But please don't be flippant about the impact of the virus.

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter

This isn't callousness, this is the factual reality of the situation. There is no sentiment in statistics

Exactly. Why is that whenever anyone posts something truthful they are accused of being callous or cold? If I say smoking cause cancer, thats not being "callous" its being truthful and its a fact. Stating facts isnt chillingly callous FFS- what a load of utter twaddle

Well yes, quite. I'm a scientist by training and I sometimes despair at the wooly thinking twaddle that some people think passes for actual critical thought. Facts are not callous, facts are facts.

Again 'tiny minority' isn't flippant. It is a fact.

Have we all forgotten the "save the NHS" mantra

That entire slogan was ridiculous, it's not an exotic sea animal on the brink of extinction that needs "saving". It's actually the NHS's job to save us, not vice versa, and it should have been adequately funded, staffed and managed in the first place.

@BeijingBikini

Have we all forgotten the "save the NHS" mantra

That entire slogan was ridiculous, it's not an exotic sea animal on the brink of extinction that needs "saving". It's actually the NHS's job to save us, not vice versa, and it should have been adequately funded, staffed and managed in the first place.

Yep. And hi Beijing.

@notalwaysalondoner Yes exactly! Although I’ve met hardly anyone who agrees with me in real life, hence posting this!

It seems to many to be heresy to question the lockdown, which is worrying in itself.

@nutellafortea

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-brazil-image/corpse-lay-on-the-street-in-coronavirus-racked-rio-for-30-hours-idUKKBN22X2BT

Just one as it happens, I was misled by a reference I saw in passing.

We didn’t copy China

They had a much much stricter lockdown ours was a wishy washy slower response

And Sweden certainly isn’t a country to look to and think well they got it right. Their numbers given the population of the country, population density and given they have a high number of people living is very high compared to other countries similar to theirs

And people always talk about deaths what amount the thousands who have been so seriously ill that they needed to be hospitalised (and at the peak you had to be very very ill) I have seen first hand so called mild symptoms it’s far far worse than any flu or virus I have ever experienced. And now there are concerns with long term organ damage for those that have recovered from covid

It's actually the NHS's job to save us, not vice versa, and it should have been adequately funded, staffed and managed in the first place

Exactly

Totally agree with this OP.

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

We didn’t copy China

They had a much much stricter lockdown ours was a wishy washy slower response

And Sweden certainly isn’t a country to look to and think well they got it right. Their numbers given the population of the country, population density and given they have a high number of people living is very high compared to other countries similar to theirs

And people always talk about deaths what amount the thousands who have been so seriously ill that they needed to be hospitalised (and at the peak you had to be very very ill) I have seen first hand so called mild symptoms it’s far far worse than any flu or virus I have ever experienced. And now there are concerns with long term organ damage for those that have recovered from covid

Sweden's economy has contracted 1/10th as much as the UKs (I realise that a lot of lockdown enthusiasts think of the economy as a frippery, but the NHS heroes do not live on fresh air).

They have no lockdown to emerge from. No risk of peaks and troughs.

They are not gambling their future on a vaccine that may or may not arrive.

They don't have a public that is fatter, more alcoholic/depressed/truculent than three months ago.

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

I agree, I'm really frustrated by the focusing on the death rate. Yes, we know that a tiny percentage die of this virus (though far too high in the UK). It really isn't just about deaths. There are so many survivors who still haven't recovered, it's similar to SARS in that way.

Tiny minority might be a fact but when it is people you are talking about it is callous

If the virus runs through society, everyone will know several people who die, many will lose their family

If the virus runs through society, the additional deaths caused by NHS overload could well be even greater than direct covid deaths

Totally agree OP. The excess deaths due to the effects of lockdown are going to be higher than the deaths with covid. As for how deaths are being recorded, absolutely shocking. Few post mortems and labelling almost every death a covid death regardless of a positive test. We will never be able to trust any of this data.

YANBU. My organisation faces a multi million hole in the finances. It was already skint. In a sector which some might think isn't that affected (not tourism or retail). That's a lot of jobs lost, livelihood ruined, and ultimately that will lead to poverty, depression and loss of life. That scenario is going to be played out across the country.

And we basically emptied the NHS hospitals for a tsunami that didn't come, meanwhile flung all the vulnerable elderly out and into care homes to die terrifying deaths, alone without family or even oxygen support. I am astounded anyone wants this madness to continue.

Agree 100%.

And how would have Sweden’s approach worked in a far more densely populated country ? As for peaks that is an unknown as we are not sure how the virus shall mutate

We are already experiencing the result of having such high numbers of death from our lockdown being so lame and so late

I agree with you OP.

@Fr0thandBubble before you proceed any further, the NHS did not cope. They had to cancel everything to deal with the virus. All their staff and wards became covid wards. This is not coping, this is taking desperate measures and putting noncovid patients at risk.

If you call this coping, then you are deluded or choose to ignore the facts.

Keep celebrating and pretend that we won the covid war.

What happens to people's personal finances and hence their quality of life as a result of the virus Is a political choice not an inevitability

They could go for severe austerity which means that people without jobs are screwed

Or the could borrow like they did after the Second World War, which lead to decades of growth, the birth of the NHS and gradually rising quality of life for the masses. Despite having to pay off the debt

Because people in Sweden don’t behave like this Coronavirus: Lake District visitors pose 'significant problems' www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-52889903 and this Jurassic Coast beach crowds 'showed shocking disregard for area' www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-52890608??