To think the lockdown needs to end now?

[Fr0thandBubble]

I could understand a lockdown being imposed for a few weeks to make sure the NHS was up to capacity, but it’s gone well beyond that. The NHS now has lots of excess capacity and yet here we still are.

I am horrified by what has happened to our civil liberties, what it’s doing to our children’s education, what it’s doing to everyone’s livelihoods and mental health, what it’s doing to the economy, how people are not getting life-saving treatment for things like cancer, etc.

I don’t understand why people aren’t given the right to choose to self-isolate if they need to but for the rest of us to be allowed to get on with our lives and to take responsibility for ourselves.

I don’t understand why people who are not old and don’t have underlying health conditions are acting hysterically and why people have decided it’s OK to police other people’s behaviour and shout at them in the street.

I feel like I’m living in some kind of awful dystopian society.

I realise I’m in the minority here but does anyone agree with me?

@DomDoesWotHeWants

Schools will be part time for months, OP. I wonder how you think it will work?

Some schools will be. Other schools were back full time yesterday.

"best ignored" "best ignored" "best ignored"

Ignoring things doesn't mean they'll go away or that they're not true. Just makes you look stupid.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

It doesn't say those poor children were killed on their way to school, which was the claim being made. I doubt very much they were. So still best ignored

If I'd have known you were this dense and lacking in critical thinking I wouldn't have bothered spending two minutes on Google looking it up.

It doesn't matter if children were killed on their walk/drive to school (although anecdotally these would be the most likely times given that this is what children spend the majority of their time doing, and I'm not clear why you're only interested in that specifically) just like it doesn't matter whether the three children that died from coronavirus caught it on their way to or once at school. The fact is that a small number of children sadly will die from something but statistically it's more likely to be a car than CV.

I am willing to bet there will never be a second lockdown. The government are fully prepared to let Covid nibble away at the fringes and only be dangerous to a tiny minority. Brutally this tiny minority will have already been deemed totally dispensible as opposed to the chaos and destruction that will be caused by the economy tanking out.

Other schools were back full time yesterday.

But with only a fraction of the usual number of pupils.

@IndiaMay it may seem crazy but that was exactly the government’s advice for the shielded up until Sunday. Where I live is incredibly busy and it is difficult to socially distance on a walk since the advice changed a couple of days ago. I also wasn’t saying we would stay in until it has disappeared as that won’t happen and I’m sure numbers will pick up again in the winter, I was merely trying to say that I feel it’s too soon and a few more weeks MAY reduce numbers enough so we don’t get another huge spike

Other schools were back full time yesterday Surely, even where children returned full time, the school only invited a handful of years. It stands to reason that - so long as social distancing remains- that kids will be physically squeezed out from a full schedule once all years return?

I agree, I can take my own risk assessment. But a disclaimer, I've already had covid most likely (fever, sniffly nose, lost taste and smell) and if it wasn't for the publicity I would have shrugged it off as an odd cold, not even a heavy one, I'm low risk and it's affecting my life a lot as I split my time between 2 locations each week normally

I’m concerned that all diseases are not being treated equally. There will be thousand of late or missed diagnoses of cancers etc that could have been cured, had they been picked up. In some A and E depts, presentations of stroke and cardiac arrest have been down 50% - people have been frightened out of seeking medical help. The increase in mental health problems, including alcoholism, will lead to more suicides. And all this is before you consider the fact that more families will be tipped into poverty, and that poverty kills.

Completely disagree. If the lockdown had been tighter to start with we could be like other European country slowly reopening everything whilst maintaining social distancing. But the half arsed measures mean we will have to wait longer to recover. You do also know that Sweden is not doing so well in their number of deaths.

we will have to live with security measures for a few months still. Kids are going back to school half time in small groups. What do you think makes us different from other countries which are going through the same thing and still taking measures?!

dom nothing wrong with my comprehension skills, just your empathy.

It's not that I lack empathy I'm just weary of people over stating the possible harm to children's mental health for their own agenda which is getting back to work. I can see through them.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Ignoring things doesn't mean they'll go away or that they're not true. Just makes you look stupid.

But not as stupid as someone making up "facts", fortunately.

@PolPotNoodle

Any credibility you had was lost when you started being abusive. Your argument was lost right there.

Good point, about directly @Fr0thandBubble but even so the numbers are staggering and there is a high possiblity that those that have passed with it would have had longer here if they hadn't had it.

Totally agree

What I wish would end is threads about coronavirus not being posted in the right section and the same threads being posted time and again by posters who can't be bothered to read all the other threads or the research (eg on Sweden; on viral load; on DCs and coronavirus; on the science behind lockdown and the meaning of collective responsibility) and I wish those posters would stop pretending they speak for everyone. Not all DCs are suffering. Not all young people feel they are sacrificing. Not everyone thinks like you OP.
But if you're genuinely looking for like minded people then I suggest you look to those working on the government's social media; those defending Boris and Cummings; etc.

I'm fully support lifting the lockdown - its the worst piece of group think since appeasement. We need to help the Government climb down as quickly as possible from the cliff it has climbed up onto helped by the media! People invoke the spirit of WW2 but really its like Vietnam and we are dropping bombs on your own citizens namely the young!

[quote Fr0thandBubble]@freddiefox Yes I am working from home (and also trying to homeschool 2 young children). I’ll be working from home until the office opens but as soon as I am allowed back in I will be there! I’m a lawyer and finding it so hard to do my job properly at the moment but I’m one of the lucky ones - I feel so sorry for people who have lost their jobs because of this.[/quote]
I always find it’s the people who work from home and are therefore at less risk are the ones pushing for the end of lockdown.

It’s tends to be an I’m alright jack attitude.

@peaceanddove

I am willing to bet there will never be a second lockdown. The government are fully prepared to let Covid nibble away at the fringes and only be dangerous to a tiny minority. Brutally this tiny minority will have already been deemed totally dispensible as opposed to the chaos and destruction that will be caused by the economy tanking out.

This... the government will spin the numbers claiming what a fantastic job they have done. While the poor and people working with the public get sick or die.

@Fr0thandBubble
I agree with you. However, I do not think the Government had any choice but to impose a lockdown. The MSM were demanding it, and many parents had already withdrawn their children from school.
Closing the economy is such as drastic action to take, that I think the purpose of the decision should be very clear – ie protect the NHS.

The Modelling failed to take 2 things into account.
These are first, that the NHS would create more capacity, by building the Nightingale Hospitals, and discharging (mainly elderly) patients back into Care Homes. Secondly that as time has gone on, our understanding of the virus has grown, and there are possibly better ways of treating people, for example, earlier intervention using oxygen, rather than the perception that treatment was delayed until the person required a ventilator.
(Yes, I realise that discharging patients back to Care Homes had itself an adverse affect, by spreading the virus into the Homes themselves)

In my opinion, the very worse decision was closing schools, although our understanding of the virus was incomplete at that time. If schools are not going back until September, many will have missed 6 months of education. However, closing schools also has an adverse effect on the rest of society. Nurseries and childminders also closed, so Parents, many of whom were working from home, were also expected to homeschool their children at the same time.

The economic impact of a lockdown is so damaging, that I honestly thought it would be only for a few weeks, and that schools would reopen after the first May Day Bank holiday, especially as the bank holiday was a Friday. We also now know that children are not as badly affected as adults, actually mainly elderly people.

I do agree that the 2 metre distancing rule should be reduced to 1 metre inline with the WHO guidelines, as many businesses such as pubs and restaurants will not be able to reopen, as their business will be unviable.

Also the same people supporting the lockdown most strongly are the same people who were screaming that austerity kills! Guess what happens in Oct/Nov that's when we start picking up the tab for something which is essentially pointless - check out Michael Levitt...

The NHS was at crisis point and close to collapse ...

According to some it always is, virus or not
Personally I remain convinced that we're not so much protecting it against this disease as decades of mismanagement and an almost total lack of accountability on the part of its management

Has the gov gone mad ?

Austerity did kill. The British Medical Journal said 120,000 people died due to austerity over a 7 year time scale.

We didn't have a proper lock down. If we had and they had implemented track, trace and test then we would have been able to lift lock down sooner. We are still not at a point where it is safe to ease lock down much at all. I'm going with the scientists not the politicians out to line their own pockets.

@FlorenceinSummer I don’t mean to be flippant and obviously every death is sad but 40,000 dying “with” Coronavirus is not staggering.

I think approx 1400 people die per day (of other causes). And I think in 2014 something like 28,000 people died from the flu.

So in that context, 40,000 dying “with” Coronavirus isn’t many. And, yes, it may be true that many of those people who died would have lived for longer if they hadn’t had Coronavirus, given that 80% of those who have died were over the average life expectancy, the likelihood is that they wouldn’t have lived for much longer.

We have 60,000 excess deaths. We have the highest excess death rate in the world.