To think the lockdown needs to end now?

[Fr0thandBubble]

I could understand a lockdown being imposed for a few weeks to make sure the NHS was up to capacity, but it’s gone well beyond that. The NHS now has lots of excess capacity and yet here we still are.

I am horrified by what has happened to our civil liberties, what it’s doing to our children’s education, what it’s doing to everyone’s livelihoods and mental health, what it’s doing to the economy, how people are not getting life-saving treatment for things like cancer, etc.

I don’t understand why people aren’t given the right to choose to self-isolate if they need to but for the rest of us to be allowed to get on with our lives and to take responsibility for ourselves.

I don’t understand why people who are not old and don’t have underlying health conditions are acting hysterically and why people have decided it’s OK to police other people’s behaviour and shout at them in the street.

I feel like I’m living in some kind of awful dystopian society.

I realise I’m in the minority here but does anyone agree with me?

[WikkiTikkiWoo]

"I don’t understand why people aren’t given the right to choose to self-isolate if they need to but for the rest of us to be allowed to get on with our lives and to take responsibility for ourselves. "


Because.. when 'you' get infected, you can spread it to those key workers who have no choice. The bus driver. The shop worker. The nurses and doctors who may treat you.

If nurses and doctors weren't dying I may feel differently. But they are. Relatively young and healthy nurses and doctors.

[mrpumblechook]

When he questioned it, he was told it was ‘standard’.

It's not standard for asthmatics to receive a letter actually. There was either a mistake or he has it quite severely.

[MarginalGain]

@mrpumblechook

I don't know how you could read my post and arrive at that conclusion.

I arrived at that conclusion were talking about people being told to shield and you said that the "entire exercise was absolutely farcical". I also don't know how you could possibly know whether the majority of those people do nothing to mitigate the risks the rest of the year.

Do you think that they do? That's a genuine question, by the way. I am curious to know what anyone thinks.

I don't think they do. The reason for this is that I have never known anyone to 'shield' in my life outside of people who are extremely clinically vulnerable, entirely separate from the perceived level of disease circulation, because anything can kill them at any moment.

I did a search of 'shield' and 'vulnerable' from MN in 2019 and I could not find a single relevant entry, although to be fair I did not spend a huge amount of time on it.

I do not think that anyone is lying, by the way. Rather, I think that there is a great deal of unwillingness to contextualise the risks because no one wants to be perceived as being insufficiently cautious. It seems like there's absolutely no penalty for any of the enormous costs of excessive caution - quite the opposite.

[MarginalGain]

@WikkiTikkiWoo

"I don’t understand why people aren’t given the right to choose to self-isolate if they need to but for the rest of us to be allowed to get on with our lives and to take responsibility for ourselves. "

Because.. when 'you' get infected, you can spread it to those key workers who have no choice. The bus driver. The shop worker. The nurses and doctors who may treat you.

If nurses and doctors weren't dying I may feel differently. But they are. Relatively young and healthy nurses and doctors.

That's not true, HCPs are not dying at rates disproportionate to the general population.

[m0therofdragons]

So, West Country R rate is probably over 1 right now. Should we just ignore that and pretend everything is fine because London is okay?

[weepingwillow22]

The SW has the lowest number of daily cases at the moment

[phoebesphalange]

@mrpumblechook it is standard actually. My MIL who has not used an inhaler or been to doc regarding asthma for over 25 years received a letter.

My FIL has host of health issues including a bowel disorder and a heart problem both of which significantly impact him on a daily basis. Yet did not receive a letter.

Please do not kid yourself that the issuing of letters was anything other than a computer generated mail shot based on some boxes being ticked by someone in admin.

[trappedsincesundaymorn]

@m0therofdragons

So, West Country R rate is probably over 1 right now. Should we just ignore that and pretend everything is fine because London is okay?

Probably??? So you don't actually know, you're just guessing.

[MarginalGain]

I would hope that the shielding group would be updated periodically (continuously?) based on the ONS mortality statistics, although that might be expecting too much for this gang.

There's absolutely no reason that PHE shouldn't be able to carry out a multi-variant regression analysis to produce a very finely grained risk assessment based on age, underlying health issues and general fitness.

Of course as ever I wonder what the exit criteria is - what's the end date of financial support for the shielders, and why would the government support 1.5 million people (or however many it is) to stay home in 2020 but not in a particularly bad flu year, for example. Someone with a host of risk factors will no doubt be paying the tab for 2020 but will be going to work to pay said tab and facing a similar set of risks.

[Jeremyironsnothing]

I won't be doing any socialising or buying, other than in my garden this year if the virus doesn't continue declining. That won't be helping the economy.

If people continue to social distance it's not looking like many are at the moment "close contact" parts of the economy stay shut for longer, and we manage to avoid numbers rising again, then it's possible my spending will increase later on in the year.

I think lots of people feel like this so whilst businesses may be open, if they open too soon they won't be viable because people will still be too scared. Bide our time, increase confidence and then the economy will get the boost it needs.

Opening everything up too soon, could do more damage to the economy than good - and that's not even considering the extra deaths from opening up too soon.

[HelloMissus]

mrpumble I know other mates have had a letter too - otherwise healthy asthmatics.

All I can tell you is that his GP told him that it wasn’t an error and it had been sent out as standard procedure.

[Hearhoovesthinkzebras]

Because those who are shielding in the true sense are not likely to be people in mainstream employment simply by virtue of the serious health problems they have.

What??? Have you seen theist of conditions that put you into the shielding category?

I'm shielding. Outside of Covid I go to work with the general public, I go to the gym, go to crowded places, do absolutely everything that everyone else can do. Ordinarily, my restrictions mean that I can't eat "risky" foods - basically the same list pregnant women eat, have to avoid exposure to chickenpox, have the flu shot and report any illness to my Dr immediately.

I'm not wrapped in cotton wool. I've been a staff nurse whilst on the same medication that I'm on now. The medication that now means I have to shield.

You have no clue.

[m0therofdragons]

@weepingwillow22 your chart is out of date, possibly due to reporting but south west is seeing big increases this week. I can’t find a relevant chart that isn’t confidential but I have seen one similar to yours where Cornwall and Devon are now dark red, Somerset not quite as dark.

[Hearhoovesthinkzebras]

As I said, those who truly have no choice and are shielding as it protects their lives have got many other life limiting issues. They are not surgeons performing at the top of their game. So let’s not pretend that’s a decent excuse for keeping hospital appointment books closed.

Says who? You? What utter, utter codswallop.

[m0therofdragons]

@trappedsincesundaymorn not guessing no, phe are working it out as we speak but we are anticipating this being the case. I don’t know about other regions but if we are lower than other counties then that suggests we are over R1 nationally. We should find out publicly within the next couple of days - I’d assume they’re working out how to spin it.

[mrpumblechook]

mrpumble I know other mates have had a letter too - otherwise healthy asthmatics.

I didn't say that no asthmatics have had a letter but it is certainly not "standard" for people with asthma to receive a letter saying that they need to shield. I know many people with mild asthma and none of them need to shield . It depends on how severe it is and what medicines they take for it. In England they don't need to shield unless they need oral steroids frequently or continuously as well as inhaler steroids because that means their asthma is severe and they will also be immunosuppressed.

[mrpumblechook]

@mrpumblechook it is standard actually. My MIL who has not used an inhaler or been to doc regarding asthma for over 25 years received a letter.

It was in error then. www.asthma.org.uk/advice/triggers/coronavirus-covid-19/shielding-advice-high-risk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1qaH_LTq6QIVyrTtCh1kugyxEAAYASAAEgJrQvD_BwE

[mrpumblechook]

Do you think that they do? That's a genuine question, by the way. I am curious to know what anyone thinks.

I know a couple of people who are at high risk (but not shielding) due to their medical conditions and they certainly take great care not to get infections infections the rest of the time.

[Lincolnfield]

For all you who think the lockdown should end I suggest you have a look at Kate Garraway’s exhausted and tear stained face this morning when she spoke so emotionally about her husband’s ten week battle with coronavirus.

Or as the Royles would say - civil liberties? My arse!

[BamboozledandBefuddled]

@Lincolnfield

For all you who think the lockdown should end I suggest you have a look at Kate Garraway’s exhausted and tear stained face this morning when she spoke so emotionally about her husband’s ten week battle with coronavirus.

Or as the Royles would say - civil liberties? My arse!

Why? Is it it completely impossible to understand that people were watching family members suffer appallingly through illness, and in some cases die, before Covid? Have many of you really led such sheltered lives that you didn't know this happened? If that's not the case, then why is Covid different?

[MarginalGain]

@Lincolnfield

For all you who think the lockdown should end I suggest you have a look at Kate Garraway’s exhausted and tear stained face this morning when she spoke so emotionally about her husband’s ten week battle with coronavirus.

Or as the Royles would say - civil liberties? My arse!

I had no idea. Forget everything I said about lockdown being ruinous for 66 million British people. If it could help Kate Garraway's husband, even in a symbolic gesture of support sort of way, it's worth it!

[BeijingBikini]

For all you who think the lockdown should end I suggest you have a look at Kate Garraway’s exhausted and tear stained face this morning when she spoke so emotionally about her husband’s ten week battle with coronavirus.

OK, it's fine for millions of people to be unemployed, lose their houses, miss out on children's educations, die of missed cancer screening and medical care, die of suicide/mental health problems and have years shaved off their life expectancy due to economic depression because of Kate Garraway's husband.

[countrygirl99]

Haven't just 5 people had the same issues as KGs husband?

[Northernsoulgirl45]

@phoebesphalange my dh is shielding. He manages to hold down a responsibile full time job with a salary which makes him a net contributor. Currently working from home.
His life expectancy is no different to anyone else. He just has to take some pretty toxic meds for his health condition.
It is so insulting that many people seem to think shielding people are "low hanging Fruit" who give nothing to society.
Several people have been on to explain that they are fully functioning members of society but are also shielding.

[AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter]

For all you who think the lockdown should end I suggest you have a look at Kate Garraway’s exhausted and tear stained face this morning when she spoke so emotionally about her husband’s ten week battle with coronavirus

What a ridiculous statement- so children should die in abusive homes, people should go without cancer treatment and people should commit suicide all because of kate Garraway? LOL

Did you even hear what she said? kate said this:

"'I don't want to scare people, Derek's situation is extremely rare, some of the damage he's got, he's one of only five people they have seen it in.'

But yes, policy in the UK ought to be based on Kate Garraway.

FFS- how unbelievably stupid