To think the lockdown needs to end now?

[Fr0thandBubble]

I could understand a lockdown being imposed for a few weeks to make sure the NHS was up to capacity, but it’s gone well beyond that. The NHS now has lots of excess capacity and yet here we still are.

I am horrified by what has happened to our civil liberties, what it’s doing to our children’s education, what it’s doing to everyone’s livelihoods and mental health, what it’s doing to the economy, how people are not getting life-saving treatment for things like cancer, etc.

I don’t understand why people aren’t given the right to choose to self-isolate if they need to but for the rest of us to be allowed to get on with our lives and to take responsibility for ourselves.

I don’t understand why people who are not old and don’t have underlying health conditions are acting hysterically and why people have decided it’s OK to police other people’s behaviour and shout at them in the street.

I feel like I’m living in some kind of awful dystopian society.

I realise I’m in the minority here but does anyone agree with me?

@FlorenceinSummer I’m not sure that’s right - 40,000 have not died “directly from” the virus - they have died “with” it. And there is a big difference.

What we've actually done is turn it into a National Coronavirus Service. The health service is now so 'protected' it might as well be sitting under a glass case in a museum for all the use it is.
Too true. On other countries the Heath service is a functional utility - in this country it's been made into a religion that we are all supposed to worship and any suggestions that it is substandard is deemed to be sacrilege. We should not be destroying society to 'protect the NHS' the NHS should be fit for purpose to serve the needs of society.

Unwise to end the lockdown!! Scientists agree that its too early for us. I will listen to them. Lives before economy.

The percentage of fit and healthy people dying from Civic is so tiny that it is actually statistically irrelevant. Children are massively more likely to die in a RTA or in a domestic accident than from Covid. Teachers are overwhelming more likely to be killed in a car accident, or by domestic violence or just by falling down their own stairs, than they are from Covid.

There is no life without the economy

@PolPotNoodle

It doesn't say those poor children were killed on their way to school, which was the claim being made. I doubt very much they were. So still best ignored.

There is no firm evidence either way about children being carriers, the jury is out.

I completely agree, lockdown is totally over for me and my family.

It’s not the economy over lives - a depression (which were headed for as opposed to a recession) will also kill people. The NHS needs funding, adult social care needs funding, schools, pupil premium and free school meals all need paying for. If this doesn’t lift quickly we are in for decades of austerity. Not to mention that the number of women being killed by their partners has doubled under lockdown.

Those of us who want it ending value people and health, we just have a different perspective on how to achieve that and where the greater harm is.

Covid was never the terrifying global pandemic it was portrayed as by the salivating media. Lockdown was essentially pointless and will ultimately have caused far, far more harm than good.

@BeltaneBride I completely agree.

@Makirocks23 I hate to say it but your statement that you cant leave your house until covid is gone is crazy. Its not going anywhere. It's a human virus, in the environment, it wont suddenly shrivel up and die, it will likely be here for billions of years. Maybe one day we will have a vaccine, in the meantime risks will have to be taken. I expect people thought similarly of HIV and AIDS when there was the terrifying thought of that spreading. But people moved on

@countrygirl99

Sounds like if dom can't see children suffering they don't matter.

Then your comprehension skills are weak. I said nothing like that, why pretend I did? I said most children were ok. I also advised contacting social services about children who aren't. But pretend I didn't say that either.

If we come out of lock down too quickly then it will have been a waste of time. Follow the science not your gut. That's what I'm doing.

Of course everyone would love to get back to something like normal but even with Bozo trying to force things through that go against scientific wisdom it cannot happen too quickly.

Social distancing and regular hand washing are the way to ensure we can come out safely and as quickly as possible.

Workplaces and schools are planning for a part time return.

@BeijingBikini except it isn’t, is it? You might choose to go to others houses and/or ignore social distancing, but that’s about the only way you can “flout” it . You can’t travel further than you can go without a trip to the loo because councils appallingly haven’t opened public toilets, you can go to the shops, you can’t eat in a restaurant or sit in a pub, you can’t go to the cinema Or out for a coffee, you can’t even send your kids to school. The government has shut down society and the economy.

By the way, saw an interesting discussion regarding R rates. There seem t9 be at least 2 with community transmission being low (

Those of us who want it ending value people and health, we just have a different perspective on how to achieve that and where the greater harm is

I think that's a good point, and to be honest, I don't think we can really know what's right. We can't see into the future, and we don't have the details about exact risk levels and scenarios of consequences.

We don't, and can't, understand all the variables. It's massively complex, and we've never done this before. All of the views we have, mine included, are, therefore, guesses.

Lockdown was essentially pointless

The NHS was at crisis point and close to collapse due to the number of staff who were self isolating. Some reports have suggested as many half the staff in some hospitals were off "sick", so it was impossible to carry on without doing something. Yes, those staff may have been "fit and healthy" and unlikely to die from it, but you can't have them in work looking after the vulnerable. Have we all forgotten the "save the NHS" mantra - that's what the lockdown was all about. And if numbers start to rise like they did before, we need another lockdown to protect the NHS for a second time.

I agree with you OP. I think people forget that no-one wants to catch it so the vast majority will take the appropriate precautions and assess risk themselves. I don’t like being treated like a teenager!

To the OP’s point, this suggests we should be much bolder with our opening up of non high risk Groups.

Not all vulnerable and shielding are in hospitals and care homes. You can't lock up millions of people because it's not safe for them to go out due to the "fit and healthy" not bothering with hygiene, social distancing, etc.

I agree with you OP. The risk to mental
Health, the economy, those at risk of domestic abuse, other health concerns due to "the great pause" all now seem to outstrip the risk from coronavirus on a population level.

Everyday I see more people new comments from scholars and scientists across the world saying that the government scientists are continuing to be very cautious despite new research and analysis suggesting we don't need to be as terrified as we first feared.

It's time for the world to start up again, where're the jump leads.

Have you ever considered people are massively concerned about their jobs, homes, children?

All of which are concerns of my own. Ending lockdown doesn’t relieve those things it exacerbates the risks we’ve been trying to avoid 🙄

Also, we can’t compare the UK to NZ. Their population is 4 million - half the size of London alone - and spread out over over an area larger than the UK.

Agree with you OP. New Zealand have been lauded for their great response (don't disagree with that), but the only way they haven't merely postponed the virus scampering through its unexposed population, is if a vaccine is found (not happening soon) or they have very effective track and trace.
Track and trace is a useful tool in trustworthy hands and for the limited function of CV control. Probably fine for New Zealand.
But various governments (I'm looking at you Hungary and Beijing) around the world are using this crisis as an opportunity to implement population control systems through their legislature which was just part of their normal pre-covid agenda.
If I have to choose between the country I love and all its inhabitants living in lockdown (regardless of the non-covid consequences which are serious but don't make the headlines currently) until there is a vaccine. Or, Putting a system of population control into the hands of unknown future governments. Or, living with free choice considerately to others with the virus as one of the many possible illnesses that might affect me or my loved ones... I know which I'd pick.

My friend called.me to tell me his dad has died of covid 19 he was well at his daughters wedding in January
If we all go back living how we did in jan many many more of us will die

Agree, agree, agree.

Upthread: "The facts are, coronavirus still exists and there is no vaccine, lockdown or no lockdown."

• or treatment yet, other than ventilation, that comes with its own damage in the longer term.

Mild symptoms mean, approximately, non-hospitalising, survivable at home, but incubation and duration of this virus is no 3-days-off-work-then-back-in job.

If the NHS had a lot of workers sick or shielding as well as dying, because they were taking the risk head on, this would actually roll out to...all industries if we were to let it spread and hope that everyone joins the mild symptoms line - which we know they don't actually, but no worries, hey? Schools, food chains, delivery companies, power companies, transport provision, water companies, local authorities, drug and PPE manufacturers, internet providers...all with spiralling sickness rates for at least 14 days at the same time.

I'd be willing to bet that even 2 days of an Internet blackout would lead to real hysteria right now, not just agitation. So good luck with that plan.

And I felt a bit sick to read "If you're white, under-40 and low risk, you'll be fine" on the last page. I really, really hope this is with a sarcastic undertone.

dom nothing wrong with my comprehension skills, just your empathy. I asked how people are supposed to know these kids are suffering if they are stuck at home - crystal ball? You may not have noticed but not all schools and not all years will be going back. Some are probably not going back until September. What damage will have been done to those that don't live in your cosy little bubble already, let alone by the time they are back? You are only looking at one problem at a time.