To think the lockdown needs to end now?

[Fr0thandBubble]

I could understand a lockdown being imposed for a few weeks to make sure the NHS was up to capacity, but it’s gone well beyond that. The NHS now has lots of excess capacity and yet here we still are.

I am horrified by what has happened to our civil liberties, what it’s doing to our children’s education, what it’s doing to everyone’s livelihoods and mental health, what it’s doing to the economy, how people are not getting life-saving treatment for things like cancer, etc.

I don’t understand why people aren’t given the right to choose to self-isolate if they need to but for the rest of us to be allowed to get on with our lives and to take responsibility for ourselves.

I don’t understand why people who are not old and don’t have underlying health conditions are acting hysterically and why people have decided it’s OK to police other people’s behaviour and shout at them in the street.

I feel like I’m living in some kind of awful dystopian society.

I realise I’m in the minority here but does anyone agree with me?

I haven't said there shouldn't have been a lockdown. I think it's causing more problems than its solving now.

In what way? People are supposed to be back at work now unless they work in theatres, pubs or cinemas or some shops etc but even if those businesses are open if they don't have enough customers they will make a profit anyway so opening them probably won't help.

You've made it quite clear that only deaths from covid matter and well fuck everyone else. Lovely.

In what way have I made it clear that only deaths from Covid matter? I just don't think that lockdown is causing other deaths. Deaths from other causes are due to NHS reorganisation at the moment and while I think that needs to be sorted out it has nothing to do with the lockdown. The recession will happen anyway because even without lockdown many people will avoid pubs, restaurants, shops etc because a fairly large proportion of the population is at high risk.

Yanbu, it just shows how easily people can be controlled by government. We were told lockdown was to protect the NHS capacity. NHS has had capacity for ages now.

When the recession comes, jobs go, poverty grows, NHS funding drops due to economic disaster it will be the poor and middle classes who suffer, the wealthy will always be fine.

Op, you're right. It is strange that some people can't see it. Yesterday, there were 0 covid deaths in all of Spain, and we have all been outside, the restaurant terraces and stores open for 2 weeks already. It really seems that the virus wears off after approx. 70 days of the first big outbreak. Why this is so, remains to be discussed and determined by scientists. It is however very surprising that the mainstream media does not pay any attention to this fact: that all of a sudden there are very few new cases, and very low (if not 0) number of deaths.
I am all for prevention, keeping the distance (I am from a Slavic country and really hope the Spanish two kisses when you're introduced to someone new, i.e. between complete strangers, is abolished forever due to the covid ), washing hands frequently (this can save us from many other, more common infections and is always a good habit to have), I would avoid going to big state hospitals now as long as possible, but we simply have to go back to normal life, there is no reason not to.
I follow mumsnet regularly and it seems that the UK is approx. 2 weeks behind Spain, in terms of the first big outbreak, so it should be soon that you also see near 0 new covid deaths.

It just demonstrates to me that too many people like living little lives and secretly enjoy the hand wringing and the drama. They find it quite exciting. Their minds are very simplistic so they can only comprehend that Covid is the big, bad wolf so everyone must stay locked indoors or Covid will huff and puff and blow your house down. They enjoy the vacuous clapping and saucepan banging every Thursday because it's a very simple concept to grasp, so they like that. They aren't capable of critical thought or analysis and get confused and defensive when challenged. It's depressing.

They aren't capable of critical thought or analysis and get confused and defensive when challenged. It's depressing.

It must be wonderful to think you are so much more intelligent and capable of critical thought and analysis than the rest of the population..

In what way? People are supposed to be back at work now unless they work in theatres, pubs or cinemas or some shops etc but even if those businesses are open if they don't have enough customers they will make a profit anyway so opening them probably won't help

please tell me how people are supposed to go to work with no childcare?

recession will cause deaths, you can pretend it wont happen but it certainly will.

It must be wonderful to think you are so much more intelligent and capable of critical thought and analysis than the rest of the population..

indeed.

For those who think we should have followed the example of Sweden, perhaps this will change your mind.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-sweden-lockdown-cases-anders-tegnell-deaths-a9545746.html

If anything the numbers are more conservative then they would have been 3 months ago as we know now that up to 40% of people are asymptomatic. Higher then previously thought.

Spain's results are most likely due to their very strict lockdown. Risking opening their boards now is not a very good idea.

The Spanish flu (I know totally different virus) caused problems for around 2 years. Until it finally mutated into a less deadly foarm. Maybe his virus will do so faster, maybe we'll find better ways to treat it. Who knows but until then it's still quite a theat and while I don't want to live in lockdown. Feel it does need to spread through the population. Opening everything up fully is really not the way to go either.

Many other things can cause economic uncertainty. Life is unpredictable, I'm wondering if I'll have a job at the end of this. But it won't e the first time I've been in this position so will just get on with it.

please tell me how people are supposed to go to work with no childcare?

Not everyone requires childcare and many of those that do can work at home. I'm not saying that everyone is back at work but most people are now unless they work in cafes, pubs etc i.e. industries that won't do well even if lockdown is lifted as they won't have enough customers.

Oh and I know people who have still been receiving cancer treatment throughout all this. I have a friend who works in that field and their clinic where reduced only for a short period. They are now back to full capacity for treatment.

My GP who I've only talked to on the phone says they can only do refurals for cancer treatment. Which means I'm left waiting on somthing else, at lest it's not life threatening.

And for those who think Sweden's economy is "booming"

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-19/sweden-in-very-deep-economic-crisis-despite-soft-lockdown

[quote mrpumblechook]For those who think we should have followed the example of Sweden, perhaps this will change your mind.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-sweden-lockdown-cases-anders-tegnell-deaths-a9545746.html[/quote]
not really. In hindsight i think most countries would have done things differently, no?

If it was up to me to make the decision, i'd have gone for a sort of amalgamation of the two. I'd have closed the borders on day one. Anyone returning home would have been quarantined for two weeks. Everything else would have stayed open but with social distancing measures (not in schools because its impossible but a strict hygiene regime obviously)

However, we didn't do this and we let it in. We have to deal with the consequences, but i dont think an elongated lockdown is the best way to do that.

Sweden may have had a lot of deaths, but they're not stuck in this shit show now. We still are, and we still have loads of deaths.

Sweden anticipates their economy will shrink by 7%; BofE anticipates the UK economy will shrink by 14%.

@peaceanddove

It just demonstrates to me that too many people like living little lives and secretly enjoy the hand wringing and the drama. They find it quite exciting. Their minds are very simplistic so they can only comprehend that Covid is the big, bad wolf so everyone must stay locked indoors or Covid will huff and puff and blow your house down. They enjoy the vacuous clapping and saucepan banging every Thursday because it's a very simple concept to grasp, so they like that. They aren't capable of critical thought or analysis and get confused and defensive when challenged. It's depressing.

peaceanddove

I find that people with non-simplistic minds who are capable of critical thought and analysis tend to appreciate that others can have different opinions from them without it being a reflection on their level of intelligence.

The scaremongering with little or no quoted evidence from those advocating ending the lock down now far outstrips any scaremongering from those who think it's too soon.

Oh the irony.

Schools are preparing for part time education in September. The carpenters are in over the road putting in social distancing measures. I'd love to say schools will be back but the evidence just isn't there.

Ending furlough hopefully will get people back to work

Sweden's biggest issue is with care homes (like in the UK and New York for example). I'm sure Tegnell would have done things differently where this is concerned, the only thing that separates Tegnell from Johnson is that he's apparently capable of thoughtful reflection.

@EnlightenedOwl yep furlough ending will stop all the naysayers and lockdown promoters !

@DomDoesWotHeWants

The scaremongering with little or no quoted evidence from those advocating ending the lock down now far outstrips any scaremongering from those who think it's too soon.

Oh the irony.

Schools are preparing for part time education in September. The carpenters are in over the road putting in social distancing measures. I'd love to say schools will be back but the evidence just isn't there.

I dont think looking at the figures and evidence can be classed as scaremongering, do you?

Right so because the school over the road is doing something (maybe preparing for classes going in soon rather than sept?) all learning WILL be part time in september?

We have been in this shit show for 3 months, there are another 3 months before september. There is NO WAY you can say what will happen with schools come september.

If it is part time learning, we will be doing a massive injustice to our children, and further supporting the rhetoric that childrens welfare does not matter.

Sweden anticipates their economy will shrink by 7%; BofE anticipates the UK economy will shrink by 14%.a

A better comparison would be one of their neighbours rather than the UK.

If it was up to me to make the decision, i'd have gone for a sort of amalgamation of the two. I'd have closed the borders on day one. Anyone returning home would have been quarantined for two weeks. Everything else would have stayed open but with social distancing measures (not in schools because its impossible but a strict hygiene regime obviously)

I would have done that too. However we didn't. I do think lockdown should be eased but I don't want it to happen faster than it is because I think it will increase deaths without helping the economy. We are headed for a recession whatever happens now, I think as we did too little too late.

Or maybe you'd rather there were corpses piled up in the streets like Brazil

Isn't this exactly what OP is talking about with the over the top reactions?

There have been no corpses piled up in the streets in Brazil. Don't make things up.

I agree OP. The Public Helath England published yesterday showed that the risk from the virus is absolutely minimal for anyone under 45, including those with underlying conditions. Out of the entire 60,000 excess deaths from the virus, only 300 are in the millions of people under 45. That risk is tiny and does not justify stopping education and the millions of young people who will be unemployed for this.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/889195/disparities_review.pdf

The risk of ‘underlying conditions’ is minimal for the under 45s. The report says some may double the risk, but for anyone under 45 that is doubling an exceptionally low risk. For a woman with diabetes it simply puts them in the same risk profile as a healthy man on the same age. It does not justify shielding or saying they need to remain indoors unless the person chooses to.

Elderly people are very much at risk. We should be discussing how to protect them - and care homes but not having these ridiculous measures in schools or young people barred from kissing their partners because they don’t live with them. It is hysterical madness.

I dont think looking at the figures and evidence can be classed as scaremongering, do you?

Yes, the way they are being interpreted or not even give or just plain made up.

Right so because the school over the road is doing something (maybe preparing for classes going in soon rather than sept?) all learning WILL be part time in september?

That's what HTs in this county have been told to prepare for. To pretend otherwise is just silly. And the rooms being worked on are for September.

We have been in this shit show for 3 months, there are another 3 months before september. There is NO WAY you can say what will happen with schools come september.

Not me saying it. It's the people who know better than me or you.

If it is part time learning, we will be doing a massive injustice to our children, and further supporting the rhetoric that childrens welfare does not matter.

Not sure that makes any sense. No one thinks children's welfare doesn't matter.

Fortunately, wiser heads than yours will be making the decisions.