To have not much sympathy?

[WelcomeToTheNorth]

Acquaintance on Facebook. Big ranting post about being made to take annual leave whilst on furlough. Not fair, either furloughed or we’re not, not in the spirit etc etc.

I mean clearly this is to prevent the furloughed employees from coming back to work with a huge stack of annual leave to take. Therefore it is exactly in the spirit of the scheme i.e. ensuring there is a workforce in place when things get moving again.

For background - I am working full time (for 80% pay) with two under-6s. Many of my colleagues have been furloughed (also at 80% - equal contribution and all that 🤨) and we are working flat out to cover it all. My mental health is shot. So yeah do you know what? I am bitter.

I completely understand that people didn’t ask to be furloughed but to be honest (I’ve had a wine or two so forgive me) I feel like people moaning about this sort of thing can do one!

@RoseGoldCloud

I’m totally with you on this. I’m shocked at how entitled and ungrateful some people on furlough have been. I’m also done with the ones who have been unfurloughed and are complaining about going back to work soon! Jesus! you’ve had months off on 80% pay while other people work themselves to the bone trying to keep a business afloat, food on the shelves and sick people alive. When they ask you to come back to work do it with a smile, a thank you to the people who’ve been working really hard, and a recognition you are one of the lucky ones who has a job to come back to!

This!

YANBU at all.... it's really starting to get on my bloody nerves as well.

One person was whinging about having to do do training during furlough and how utterly unreasonable it is, I mean, really?

If you are furloughed and getting 80% of your wage, take your annual leave, do your training and STFU.

I was comforting a colleague today who was upset because she can't get any annual leave, she's been putting herself at risk of Covid for the last 10 wks and her kids cry every time she leaves the house as they are so scared she will get sick from work and die so quite frankly I'm sick of the moaning from people who don't realise they have the easy end of the deal.

Take your 80% and be glad you're safe at home.

Some people are so selfish and have zero insight into their behaviour.

When open, we need a certain number of staff on site. We actually factor in everyone's holidays to our staff planning - we can't just be busier for a couple of weeks.

We also specify that each person must take 2 weeks during a certain period (they choose their own dates within this) and as we are going to be closed over that period we are telling all staff that two weeks will be annual leave, paid at 100%.

By the time we reopen we will have been closed for 4-5 months. We'll be 8 months in to the holiday year and for everyone to take their holidays before year end we'd need to hire more staff which we can't afford to do.

I'm sure some of our staff have moaned but we're doing the best we can to protect the business and therefore their jobs

It is worth looking at the workload situation and speaking to your employer. Disappointing that you are working but not being paid 100%. Would you switch with a fellow staff member so you could be at home with children? Can you speak to manager about the burnout this is causing? Finding what you want then presenting to management. I understand this is difficult time, but maybe there is a solution?

I do think holiday needs to be spread out, carrying some days forward and asking people to take a week in June seems reasonable if they've not already booked time off later in the year.

Responding to an earlier point, I don't think it's unreasonable to want to take holiday at the same time as your partner so you can spend time together. Or go away together and enjoy a holiday. Of course people could go on holiday on their own but most would rather not. That might have to be sacrificed to some extent this year but it's not an unreasonable thing to want!

We were all advised to book our holiday so we were paid for it in the Easter holiday. When we were furloughed we were told all our holiday had been cancelled so they didn’t have to pay us it. ( I also work for a charity, residential weeks for schools, so we are high and dry until the schools are back and allowed to go away for residentials. There’s been no mention of when we are going to get the outstanding holiday pay - and while I can sympathise with people saying that we should donate our holiday back to a struggling business - the holiday that we’ve already accrued should ( in my opinion) be honoured. God only knows when though - it costs around £800,000 a year to run the farm, if they have to pay us all holiday on top then it’s going to be very awkward.

I’m not furloughed. I’ve been covering all my normal work, which hasn’t reduced, and all the work of another colleague (and bits and bobs from other colleagues). And all the NON furloughed staff (and furloughed tbf) have been instructed to use all their accrued holiday before the end of June. So I’m using 25% of my holidays this month (and I wouldn’t normally have used 25% in this period), while the work backs up.

But, I’m just grateful I still have an employer. I’m glad they’re taking all the steps they can to try to protect the business.

The kick-off from colleagues (furloughed and non-furloughed) over holidays has been astounding. I’m also a line manager and have been asked (including by furloughed colleagues) when they’ll be having their performance reviews and will their bonus be delayed.

I don't think they should lose holiday when they can't actually go on holiday.

My husband was furloughed while on long term sick. He has now been told that he will only receive ssp sick pay for 2 of the weeks as he didn't call in each week to update them, he was covered by a sick note and we presumed this was enough as it states why he can't work on there, but I wonder if they will still be collecting his 80% furlough pay from the government.

We are still all getting paid where I work and where possible we work from home. Facilities staff can’t work from home but as the premises aren’t in use as much there isn’t as much work to do so these staff have been paid in full but only required to work one day a week instead of 5.

We had requests that they should only use one day of their holidays when they had their pre-planned week off as they would only have had to work one day that week if they had been in.

We said no. Why should staff who are working from home full time have to use a weeks worth of holidays and they who are already being given 4 paid days off a week then get to save holidays to use another time? Someone else asked to use five days one day a week while on this work pattern thinking they would get 5 weeks off!

My large company ...all booked holiday cannot to cancelled ... and I think that’s fair .... there are worst things in life to be honest but too many people are selfish and think they are entitled to 3+ months off work paid and then they should take a full years holiday allowance when business starts back ....
No thought to the dead, the unemployed, the tens of thousands queueing at food banks, people losing their homes and relationships under immense financial strain... go figure I imagine these are the same people ..who push past you in the supermarket and drive to beauty spots and fill up beaches... and support Boris & Cummings

Pollian. His sick note does cover him and no he doesn’t have to ring in each day ... get advice from ACAS.... and what does his contract say regarding calling in?

I don't think they should lose holiday when they can't actually go on holiday.

UK paid holiday is 28 days per year. Do people you know actually spend that much time away from home?! Everyone I know has a week or (if posh) two away from home and the rest is used for chilling/childcare/weddings etc. And then there’s the factory workers who get 25 of those days chosen explicitly by the company as “shut down” days or bank holidays, so only 3 days discretionary leave per year. How the other half live, eh!

In answer to the OP, though, I’m with you. Furlough was designed to prevent a huge number of people being made redundant. Those would get (usually shit) statutory redundancy pay + any owed leave. Then they’d be on universal credit which is awful. I think furlough at 80% and having to take annual leave would be preferable for the vast majority.

Dh and I are both wfh full time with a toddler, an autistic teen and no nursery or child minding provision until 4/6.

I have been told to book leave during this time but I want to use it to relax not to mind the baby while dh works or vice versa.

I would be loath to lose 20% of my leave as well. I see your gripe but don’t agree. Sorry op.

Anyone shielding or sick in my nhs trust have been told they must take 25% of their annual leave as otherwise they get to shield on full pay and then take annual leave on their return which is highly unfair to those still in work. However, those in work have also been told they must book 25% before the end of June to prevent burnout.

Some who are shielding have complained saying it's unfair but tough! The rest of us are working VERY hard and don't need you coming back to then have more time off while we cover AGAIN.

You are also moaning! everyone is in different situations with absolutely no choice! keep your self on your own situation and maybe you won’t feel bitter, Just better :) Me & my mother work for the same company, 1 is furloughed the other is not, not one problem.. too busy doing what it takes to get through this whole situation....

I'm not furloughed. No one in my arm of the company has been. I've cancelled all annual leave (barring my birthday which falls on a day I work)

I cancelled my leave in the earlier days of this situation, company are now asking people to take their booked leave or to actually book leave because they don't want us all coming back with lots of annual leave.

Personally I didn't want to take precious annual leave to be stuck in the house with the kids. Now lock down rules have changed and we can go out a bit then I'll book a few days here and there.

I will need the leave for times ahead I suspect? I've got almost 8 week

Companies shouldn't be furloughing staff and then asking others to work flat out. If they have work for the furloughed employees to do then they don't need the tax payers money.

I furloughed my secretary She's now back because work has picked up again and I need her. I wouldn't work flat out and be shattered whilst also home schooling just to claim the money. That would be wrong.

I have been told to book leave during this time but I want to use it to relax not to mind the baby while dh works or vice versa
What employees want doesn't make what companies should do. I want many things that would make my working life very fulfilling. It wouldn't be so good for my employer.

I accept that most of my wants can't be met and I'm grateful for those that can be.

This griwing attitude of 'I want so I should get and it's unreasonable not to grant it to me' is really shocking.

I think it depends. Last year, when I was pregnant, we found out in October and my husband saved all his annual leave until the baby was born in June. His employer knew he was doing that and were fine with it. If they'd changed their minds and used all his holiday before the baby came we'd have been furious. However, if someone had a week in April booked off and then got furloughed then that week booked off should still count as holiday.
Most employment contracts require staff and employers to agree when holiday will be taken so employers can't just force you to take it. However, you do need to take it within the year so if it's coming up to the end of your year then it can't roll over so you get double holiday next year.

Ferret27 the contract does say about calling in but it doesnt take in long term sick or mention anything regarding a sick note, so we presumed as the sick note stated his illness that was enough. I will call ACAS today. Thanks for the reply

In my DHs job, along with many others, they have to submit leave requests for 80% of their allocation in advance. They have to submit this in November for the holiday year starting in April but they don't get anything approved usually until Feb and after all requests are submitted and are over 80% They can't submit in advance for Christmas or New Year so basically any days left out of their 80% are just enough to cover a few days off at Christmas. Public holidays are not fixed and are included in holiday entitlement. In effect this means that no-one an ever get a week or two weeks off at Christmas. I usually just put my hols in once DHs are approved. Many jobs (including mine) require you to take at least two weeks in a row every year.

Everyone has different rules to adhere to. Some folk in my company are not allowed to carry any leave, i'm allowed to carry 5 days, we've been told this will not be increased and managers will not allow more staff to be off than normal at any one time. In other words, it's very much the message that leave needs to be taken regardless of the covid restrictions.

I think this is fair tbh even if it does mean that I can't really do anything on my summer hols this year.

Polian normally it states to phone in unless you are signed off ... once signed off companies should not call or expect daily calls.... as this could be construed as harassment .... they can usually check in or ask you to keep in touch say weekly or fortnightly if you are signed off for a month or longer so they are aware of progress or to know if you need further support... another measure is finding out if other colleagues have or are being treated the same ... a good company has the right processes in place and unless your husband signed a contract saying he must ring in every day with a sick note in place his company are on dangerous ground .... good luck ... you can get free legal advice ...google it ... no payments needed ... I imagine a lot of people will find themselves in similar difficulty during Covid ... even big companies get it wrong too so don’t be afraid to get things confirmed ... and make notes of all conversations and date and time you speak to someone...

Where I work the people who went home to shield. Some of them have cancelled any annual leave they had booked. The were making such a fuss about it the week before. The people who have been to work throughout the lockdown will be left in office again whilst they use all the holidays they have saved.

I'm confused as to why everybody is assuming that those on furlough will go back to work and demand to take their holiday within that annual allowance. Anything up to 4 weeks can now be carried over to up to 2 years. So employers can refuse any holiday plans for this year for furlough (or working), employees and add it on to the following years allowance.

wslaw.co.uk/blog/carry-over-of-statutory-holiday-extended-by-up-to-two-years/