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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have not much sympathy?

235 replies

WelcomeToTheNorth · 31/05/2020 01:11

Acquaintance on Facebook. Big ranting post about being made to take annual leave whilst on furlough. Not fair, either furloughed or we’re not, not in the spirit etc etc.

I mean clearly this is to prevent the furloughed employees from coming back to work with a huge stack of annual leave to take. Therefore it is exactly in the spirit of the scheme i.e. ensuring there is a workforce in place when things get moving again.

For background - I am working full time (for 80% pay) with two under-6s. Many of my colleagues have been furloughed (also at 80% - equal contribution and all that 🤨) and we are working flat out to cover it all. My mental health is shot. So yeah do you know what? I am bitter.

I completely understand that people didn’t ask to be furloughed but to be honest (I’ve had a wine or two so forgive me) I feel like people moaning about this sort of thing can do one!

OP posts:
makingmammaries · 31/05/2020 11:57

those who are sat cushty on 80-100% pay, enjoying the sun/beaches /gardening /dying/home baking etc

The dying is by far the most enjoyable part, obviously.

FranklySonImTheGaffer · 31/05/2020 11:58

I work for a really good company who closed the office and paid everyone in full - no furlough or reduced wages - when only 30% of the workforce was equipped to WFH.
Since lockdown has started they have increased WFH capacity to 80% but some people are still awaiting laptops / systems access.
Basically a lot of people (me included) have had no work but full pay for 10 weeks.

I was Shock and Angry to see people kicking off because we have been told we will all lose 2.5 days of leave as though we had taken it in May and have been asked to ensure 50% of leave has been booked or taken by the end of August. I can't believe how ungrateful people are being so YANBU OP!

WaffleCash · 31/05/2020 12:46

I was shock and angry to see people kicking off because we have been told we will all lose 2.5 days of leave as though we had taken it in May and have been asked to ensure 50% of leave has been booked or taken by the end of August. I can't believe how ungrateful people are being so YANBU OP!

There are always some people. Our work announced everyone work from home, an allowance to buy a chair/desk etc, just do as much as you can as and when if you have childcare issues etc. and still there was some twonk moaning on our internal yammer that he didn't want to work at home and would he be compensated for the extra electricity

SmudgeButt · 31/05/2020 12:56

I track the holidays for our department and people are allowed to cancel them no matter if they are in the office as normal, working from home or not able to do either - everyone is still on 100%. I know what's going to happen when restrictions lift, there will be a rush to book holidays and people will be unhappy that I say no, too many already are off. There will also be those that try to claim back holidays in April/May etc that might have been booked before lock down and didn't get cancelled - saying they forgot about them, that because they were furloughed they couldn't email. And then there'll be the usual bun fight over who gets time off at Christmas.

Cremebrule · 31/05/2020 13:03

It also seems like some people see annual leave as a right to do something fun. It isn’t really- it’s just time off work. At my work no-one is furloughed And everyone is working (albeit many working around childcare) but they had to remind people to take leave as most people been storing it up until a better time and waiting until there is more certainty with schools. They’re leaving us to it but if people don’t start booking leave in, they may become more prescriptive.

AhNowTed · 31/05/2020 13:06

I'm furloughed and my employer has told me they're processing 10 days of my leave entitlement.

I've no problem with this whatsoever.

They can't have the furloughed workforce storing up weeks of holiday for when they return to work, having been off for, so far 2 months and likely to be 2 more.

That would hardly be fair.

I'll just be glad of a job to go back to, fingers crossed.

Brefugee · 31/05/2020 13:13

For background - I am working full time (for 80% pay) with two under-6s. Many of my colleagues have been furloughed (also at 80% - equal contribution and all that 🤨)

Are you in a union? why is anyone accepting that?

MollysMummy2010 · 31/05/2020 14:30

I am also working ft for 80% but I don’t see the company had a choice. They basically lost 99% of their income overnight and I will be grateful to have job at the end. They are making noises about reinstating full pay in July which will be welcome but If they need longer so be it.

Poptart4 · 31/05/2020 14:36

YANBU op.... people saying furlough isnt a holiday can just fuck right off.

Yes your worried, stressed and trying to home school but try being all of those things AND working on top of that!

People being furloughed doesn't actually bother me its the ungrateful attitude that pisses me off. A 3 month paid for holiday and still moaning Hmm

Drag0nflye · 31/05/2020 14:37

Completely agree OP

Poptart4 · 31/05/2020 14:40

@GreenTeaMug theres no way in hell I would put up with those working conditions. Your employer clearly doesn't value you and no job is worth your mental or physical health. Go back to the doctor and get signed off work. Use the time off to look for another job.

Honestly I'd rather be on the dole than work for someone who treats their employees so badly.

Look after yourself green tea...xx

peachgreen · 31/05/2020 14:43

I've been furloughed and unfurloughed. I much, much prefer working, despite having to juggle caring for a rambunctious toddler around working. Furlough was massively demoralising and awful for my mental health. It's not a jolly.

GreenTeaMug · 31/05/2020 14:44

Thanks Poptart4 I appreciate that from the bottom of my heart.
Thanks

Anotherchangeanothername · 31/05/2020 14:50

Another thread bashing people on furlough. Really just what MN needs.

@WelcomeToTheNorth I am confused, they CANNOT just enforce a reduction in salary. You need to agree to it, and an official document needs to be signed.

There are many companies who have taken unfair advantage of the furlough scheme, playing to people fears, decreasing pay and then loading up nonfurlough with 10-12 hours work per day. That is not ok and should be dealt with.

But directing all this hate constantly to people on furlough isn't fair.

Also, there is a cap on furlough- £2500. I know not one person on furlough getting 80% of their salary, most on are much less % (I am on 30%). I am London based so it's skewed, but just remember that lots of people are really really really struggling financially at the moment.

tappitytaptap · 31/05/2020 14:52

I’m working as normal and being asked to take a certain amount of holiday by certain points when I didn’t choose to/don’t want to. I think complaining about it when you are being paid 80% to do nothing is probably unwise.

WaxOnFeckOff · 31/05/2020 14:53

Another thread bashing people on furlough. Really just what MN needs.

It's not bashing folk on furlough though is it? It's bashing cheeky fuckers who think they should get paid holidays on top of months of pay for no work - you know, sort of like an extended holiday? I appreciate that some folk will be worried and homeschooling etc etc etc but that doesn't mean this particular issue isn't cheeky.

Some posters on furlough agree that this is unreasonable.

Trevsadick · 31/05/2020 15:17

Why has it become a thing on MN, that you can't talk about someone's unreasonable behaviour if they are furloughed.

If you do you get loads of 'its not their fault they were furloughed' or 'oh more Furlough bashing

It may come as a surprise but some people are entitled dicks, some of these entitled dicks are on furlough.

Furlough isn't a protected characteristic. Furlough workers who want most of the year off and then have their annual leave, despite knowing this will further damage their companies ability to earn money, knowing it impacts their colleagues job security are the ones causing the issue.

Ylvamoon · 31/05/2020 15:32

Why has it become a thing on MN, that you can't talk about someone's unreasonable behaviour if they are furloughed.

Why is it unreasonable to try and hold on to holidays? Furlough or not, we can't travel at the moment or have the money for a holiday / days out on 80% wages.
Being able to look forward to something is a little silver lining in this whole shit show. 🤷‍♀️

Trevsadick · 31/05/2020 15:37

Why is it unreasonable to try and hold on to holidays? Furlough or not, we can't travel at the moment or have the money for a holiday / days out on 80% wages.

Its not unreasonable to hope for it or prefer it. Its unreasonable to expect it or kick off about not getting it.

Read the thread. Read my post. Its explained. For a lot of companies it will further damage them to them have their whole company trying to take annual leave later in the year, when they will be in a period of all hands on deck to claw back some money.

TartanTrousers · 31/05/2020 15:41

I see it from both sides, those furloughed (in the main) didn’t ask to be furloughed and must be under a lot of pressure worrying about whether they have a job to return to.

I’m still working (enforced pay cut) and have been working ridiculous hours to squeeze in all of the work.

I think there’s a balancing act here, those furloughed should be made to use some of their accrued leave so they do not come back after 3 or 6 months with the same holiday entitlement as everyone else.

I’ve seen examples in my company of those working booking annual leave just to get a break from the pressure and the hours. I don’t see that as fair and feel they are losing out to those furloughed.

Either way, there will be hard decisions that companies have to make after this and we should all dig in to try to survive it, whether it’s working hard or losing leave.

WaxOnFeckOff · 31/05/2020 16:22

Why is it unreasonable to try and hold on to holidays? Furlough or not, we can't travel at the moment or have the money for a holiday / days out on 80% wages.
Being able to look forward to something is a little silver lining in this whole shit show. 🤷‍♀️

Well because it's a shit show for everyone and those working full time and having to use up holidays because they are being asked to or just because they need a break would also love a silver lining and something to look forward to. Should they have to compete for time off with folk who haven't been working? Is that fair?

A colleague is still waiting on a almost £6k refund for their holiday of a lifetime that they can't go on, while working full time at home with no office space or furniture while homeschooling 2 children, a husband working night shift and a father with dementia and a mum who is isolating with him but is losing her head with it all.

She's having to take her booked leave just like me but can go nowhere and has no money either. She'd love to be furloughed tbh.

I appreciate that for some people being furloughed is a nightmare as well, but really? paid holidays at the end of it too? Hmm

Ylvamoon · 31/05/2020 16:36

WaxOnFeckOff if you are unable to find your own silver lining, that's not anyone's but your own fault. Nothing to do with the furloughed. Other than feeding your green eyed monster!
And yes, even I have my own trials and tribulations ... don't we all! Life is unfair and all that.

Trevsadick · 31/05/2020 16:49

@Ylvamoon and people who can't save annual leave until after furlough, but can't, will also have to find their own silver lining. Surely that works both ways.

Ylvamoon · 31/05/2020 17:13

@Trevsadick everyone is welcome to have a silver lining... what mine is is completely irrelevant.

All I am saying is, that on furlough or not people may want to keep their holiday entitlement, for when we are allowed to travel, or like me to cover childcare. Is that so wrong? People didn't ask to be on furlough, but having been on it myself (back to work tomorrow!!) I don't blame them to make the most of the unexpected free time. I also don't blame people wanting to hold on to their holidays... after all, most travel companies encourage people to re book, so they can stay afloat. For that reason, employees will need some of their holiday entitlement...

Trevsadick · 31/05/2020 17:20

No one said they shouldn't get their holiday entitlement.

Personally, I can see the point regarding losing some but don't agree.

Fact is, your employer can dictate when you take your annual leave. The other fact that having people returning into work and then all taking loads of annual leave, would leave many businesses in bad positions. If your company can make loads of money with a lots of staff not being there, jobs are at risk.

You said the pp had to find their own silver lining. Well, if you are furloughed and having to take annual leave during that period and not getting to 'rinse' annual leave. Then you need to find your own alternative silver lining.

Or is that not what you meant? Did you mean if the pp can't find her own silver lining, thats her fault. But if you cant find an alternative one, to the one you want....its not your fault?

People who haven't been furloughed have been made to take AL as well.