To have not much sympathy?

[WelcomeToTheNorth]

Acquaintance on Facebook. Big ranting post about being made to take annual leave whilst on furlough. Not fair, either furloughed or we’re not, not in the spirit etc etc.

I mean clearly this is to prevent the furloughed employees from coming back to work with a huge stack of annual leave to take. Therefore it is exactly in the spirit of the scheme i.e. ensuring there is a workforce in place when things get moving again.

For background - I am working full time (for 80% pay) with two under-6s. Many of my colleagues have been furloughed (also at 80% - equal contribution and all that 🤨) and we are working flat out to cover it all. My mental health is shot. So yeah do you know what? I am bitter.

I completely understand that people didn’t ask to be furloughed but to be honest (I’ve had a wine or two so forgive me) I feel like people moaning about this sort of thing can do one!

My employers have furloughed some people on 80% of wage and are deducting 1/2 a days holiday each week which is a bit dodgy to say the least, it is understandable on 100% but not 80% but if it helps keep the company afloat then it's hard to complain. 🤷‍♀️

DH is in the same boat, his team are all furloughed and he is not - he's working from home 10 hours a day covering the jobs of 20 people because his company won't bring anyone back and he is getting so much grief from his team about their annual leave and wanting to cancel any holiday during furlough and rebook it to take when they come back (they're currently getting 100% pay..).
They're allowing those who have not been furloughed to choose their remaining holiday dates before granting any annual leave for those on furlough.

The company also cancelled 2 of DHs pre booked holiday dates because no one else is working so no one can cover his work load

You have my sympathy OP but I can also see it from others point of view (although less so), it's annoying to use precious holiday dates when you can't do much with it but these are weird times.

I mean I can see their argument but it just smacks of pure entitlement to me. Like I just do not want to hear it.

Interesting that any annual leave days have to be paid in full though, so those getting 80% on furlough who take a days annual leave - the company has to top it up to 100% even if they aren't topping up the furlough payments.

I’m totally with you on this. I’m shocked at how entitled and ungrateful some people on furlough have been. I’m also done with the ones who have been unfurloughed and are complaining about going back to work soon! Jesus! you’ve had months off on 80% pay while other people work themselves to the bone trying to keep a business afloat, food on the shelves and sick people alive. When they ask you to come back to work do it with a smile, a thank you to the people who’ve been working really hard, and a recognition you are one of the lucky ones who has a job to come back to!

Our furloughed staff haven’t been asked to take annual leave, but we have extended the amount you can roll over into next year (normally 5 days but now more). This was also agreed because even staff still working are unlikely to want to take as much leave if they can’t travel anywhere so it seemed like the fairest option and will hopefully discourage a sea of requests once things are (somewhat) normal.

I can understand your friend’s POV, a lot of people are feeling nervous about being furloughed and I can imagine this latest news about leave is being received with already heightened emotions.

I don’t think aiming your frustration at your furloughed colleagues is not a particularly fair outlet however. Completely sympathise with how hard you are working and how much it’s taking it’s toll, but people didn’t have a choice in their furlough.

I’m furloughed. On 100% pay as my company is topping up. The staff in working are receiving a 15% bonus payment.
I know there will be colleagues of mine who will feel resentful of those who are at home. And I’m sure that’s why the additional pay was offered. Most of the staff who are working volunteered to but I guess they didn’t know it would last this long (or that the weather would be so good). But there’s also plenty of them doing the job. It must be really crap for people like your dh but that’s his bosses fault, not those people who were told to go home.
Those furloughed from my work are either vulnerable, have caring responsibilities for dc or elderly relatives and would’ve struggled to stay in work anyway.
It’s not a holiday. It certainly doesn’t feel like it, nor am I treating it that way. Homeschooling is much harder than my normal day job.

Sorry that should say people like you and your boss.
Think I need to go to sleep now

I am on furlough and my company has asked if i want to use my holiday to get extra pay.
I declined, because I have DC and I can't see school going back full time in September (... not even thinking of summer holidays...) I need my holidays days to cover childcare.

I know it sucks for everyone... but most of those who are on furlough, didn't ask for it!!!

@Ylvamoon if you weren't on furlough would you be taking annual leave now then to cover childcare like you propose as a contingency for September?

Our office staff are not furloughed, but line managers have been asked to check everyones holiday plans and make sure holidays are not being saved until after lockdown. I've got 3 weeks booked already over school holidays in July/August so they are okay with that. Anyone with holidays booked/approved are not allowed to cancel.

Can't see why rules would be different for those furloughed.

DH taken a pay cut and been asked to bring annual leave forward. The company is just tying to balance the books as best they can and ensure as many people as possible actually have a job to return to. They also can’t have everyone pissing off on holiday at the very time when they’re desperately trying to rebuild the business. I find many employees utterly small minded.

I’m working full time and have to take my holiday dates during furlough. My partner is on furlough and doesn’t have to take holidays now. It’s unfair but that’s just life.

I think it should be pro-rata'd. E.g. 3 months off on furlough, and you get three-quarters of your AL entitlement.

Another example: I started in my current job a few years back on 1st June. The AL year runs Apr-Apr like the financial year does. Because I didn't work for the first 2 months, having started on 1st June, my AL was pro-rated to 5/6ths of the normal entitlement.

I quite like the pro rata suggestion.

I know that they didn’t ask for it in many cases. I’m just done with the suggestion that it’s not a holiday because that’s exactly what it is. People who are still working have to home school etc too.

our company said straight away, no annual leave could be cancelled. If you were nfurlough and it went over annual leave, those days were still annula leave and you would receive 100% wage.

I was actually on annual leave the day we locked down but got called in at 11am to get our stuff to set up from home and the MD asked me if I could cancel annual leave to make sure my team were set up.

I hadn't booked anymore leave, apart from a few days at Christmas. So i now have 4 weeks now most of ten company are back, the ones who were furlough are gettig first pick to book in annual leave to let us have a break.

I have booked a week and added days onto to Christmas.

People who weren't furlough were also expected to take any annual leave they had booked, so it was entirely fair.

I also, agree that people didn't ask to be furloughed. But some (not all or most) are acting really entitled. They want all summer off then come back and have loads of annula leave to use as they want too.

@onitlikeacarbonnet

I’m furloughed. On 100% pay as my company is topping up. The staff in working are receiving a 15% bonus payment. I know there will be colleagues of mine who will feel resentful of those who are at home. And I’m sure that’s why the additional pay was offered. Most of the staff who are working volunteered to but I guess they didn’t know it would last this long (or that the weather would be so good). But there’s also plenty of them doing the job. It must be really crap for people like your dh but that’s his bosses fault, not those people who were told to go home. Those furloughed from my work are either vulnerable, have caring responsibilities for dc or elderly relatives and would’ve struggled to stay in work anyway. It’s not a holiday. It certainly doesn’t feel like it, nor am I treating it that way. Homeschooling is much harder than my normal day job.

If home schooling is so hard for you, imagine how those still working feel.

I disagree with your company giving 15% more to working employees. Either they need our government money or they don't. In your company's case, it's very obviously one of the piss takes!

I'm furloughed and I can't get worked up about annual leave. I was supposed to have a week off at Easter and this week off as annual leave, I'm not bothered if I can't take it later in the year. I'll be happy to have a job to go back to!

The only thing that is a bit dodgy is that I've only been receiving furlough pay for the 2 weeks I had booked off. If my employers wanted me to take the annual leave they should have topped those weeks up to 100%. Although at the moment they can't afford to do that as business is bad. If/when I go back to work I'll have a chat with them about it.

Please stop creating a divide between the furloughed/non furloughed though. I did not ask for this, this is not a holiday, every day I'm consumed with anxiety that I won't have a job to go back to and I would rather be at work.

I don’t think I’m the one creating the divide here. I agree that a divide isn’t helpful but I just think the entitled few should pipe down.

Also the non-furloughed have all the same anxieties and worries as you do. There will likely be redundancies in my work. I am not immune to that just because I’ve been working.

It is insensitive to waffle about annual leave on social media, I agree.

But this is not a holiday as you've said. Many furloughed people will be facing redundancy soon and there won't be enough jobs to go around for everyone.

Why are you Working full time for 80% pay? The same as those that are furloughed? How can they do that?

Please stop creating a divide between the furloughed/non furloughed though
It's the the ones with the entitled attitude who are creating a divide.

It's totally reasonable to ask staff to take some time off during furlough as they probably would have done so otherwise so that they don't come back to work asking for time off.

The fact that they don't need a holiday because life on furlough has been kind to them is irrelevant. If you don't like, at least have enough respect for those who have worked and keep it quiet.

Because they enforced an across-the-board pay cut with no corresponding reduction in hours 🤷🏻‍♀️ And to be honest I’m working all day every day through the week anyway so a reduction in hours wouldn’t have made any difference

Companies that have staff working flat out to cover those furloughed are abusing the system. Furlough should be used when there is no work for the employee to do, not to save money while everyone else picks up the slack.