To have not much sympathy?

[WelcomeToTheNorth]

Acquaintance on Facebook. Big ranting post about being made to take annual leave whilst on furlough. Not fair, either furloughed or we’re not, not in the spirit etc etc.

I mean clearly this is to prevent the furloughed employees from coming back to work with a huge stack of annual leave to take. Therefore it is exactly in the spirit of the scheme i.e. ensuring there is a workforce in place when things get moving again.

For background - I am working full time (for 80% pay) with two under-6s. Many of my colleagues have been furloughed (also at 80% - equal contribution and all that 🤨) and we are working flat out to cover it all. My mental health is shot. So yeah do you know what? I am bitter.

I completely understand that people didn’t ask to be furloughed but to be honest (I’ve had a wine or two so forgive me) I feel like people moaning about this sort of thing can do one!

Because they get taxed on it. That’s why.

@OwlinaTree

This is such a difficult question. If parents are saving holiday to cover school holidays I think that should be allowed. I also think if you've got holiday already booked for Nov/Dec or whatever you shouldn't have to change it.

If you had holiday booked for a time that had been part of furlough then unfortunately yes companies will probably need people to take that as planned. I'm not sure about insisting people take holiday if they didn't have anything booked, but people will have to accept that they might not be able to take holiday at their chosen time when things are back to normal. You might end up with a week in Nov when it's raining.

But legally am employer can dictate when you take annual leave. As long as given as much notice as the length of leave being taken. Eg a fortnight notice for a fortnight annual leave.

And for the record I’m not happy to hear of anyone, furloughed or not, losing their job. But it’s disingenuous to say that people who are still working don’t have redundancy concerns. My firm are falling over themselves to reassure the furloughed people that they won’t be at greater risk of redundancy than anyone else. Which is great for them (and I don’t want them to be made redundant of course) but it rubs salt into the wound for the rest of us.

You really aren't getting it OP. Companies will likly make furloughed people redundant because in their mind they are the ones no longer needed when considering cuts. The employees they have kept on have a better chance of keeping their jobs

I know quite a few furloughed people and they are not treating it as a holiday, they are riddled with stress and anxiety as some would have been minimum wage so 80% is low, others are main earners so the risk of redundancy is real. None of them asked for this so maybe its your who needs to pipe down and have a bit of sympathy. People posting on social media may just be trying to turn a bad situation into a good, so what? Maybe they want a chance to be happy before the enviable comes. They. Did. Not. Ask. For. This.

@Redwren

I agree that people should be more sensitive on social media. However I dont want to use my holiday during furlough, my holidays are usually used in one 2 week block where we travel 8 hours and spend time with family, I currently have no idea when we will see them so want some holiday kept so I can at some point this year, being told tough shit would not be good for my MH. The rest i use during school holidays for childcare which I might need in the summer/autumn half term/christmas

Unfortunately, your "wants" come second to the needs of the employer.

So right now you may have to accept you'll not see them and need different holidays cover.

Potentially, parental leave, where you can take 4 weeks per child, unpaid obviously.

But it’s disingenuous to say that people who are still working don’t have redundancy concerns

You are very naive OP. And you clearly aren't happy that your company are reasurring furloughed people.

I'm not furloughed, key worker and we have to take some annual leave during this period so it doesn't stack up, its not much of a holiday either, so I would be annoyed about furloughed workers moaning about having to take their annual leave

We are mandating that everyone, furloughed or not, takes 50% of the annual leave by end of June. What people dont seem to grasp here is that we have furloughed people, taken pay cuts, working 16hr days etc to ensure that our business survives. If everyone then takes all their annual leave after this is 'over', there will be no-one to deliver any work we've got left and the business will go under.

So what that you're upset that you can't go on your overseas holiday and a 'staycation' is not what you want. Tough, its make the sacrifice for your colleagues and company or have no job to return to.

The 'I'm special, make an exception for me' from some of my staff on this matter, furloughed AND non furloughed is beginning to piss me off.

Why is it naive? I’m clearly at no smaller risk of redundancy than the furloughed people despite breaking my neck to keep working.

@GreytExpectations

You really aren't getting it OP. Companies will likly make furloughed people redundant because in their mind they are the ones no longer needed when considering cuts. The employees they have kept on have a better chance of keeping their jobs

I know quite a few furloughed people and they are not treating it as a holiday, they are riddled with stress and anxiety as some would have been minimum wage so 80% is low, others are main earners so the risk of redundancy is real. None of them asked for this so maybe its your who needs to pipe down and have a bit of sympathy. People posting on social media may just be trying to turn a bad situation into a good, so what? Maybe they want a chance to be happy before the enviable comes. They. Did. Not. Ask. For. This.

Sadly, I believe they should have been made redundant from the outset though. So they've had a free ride when they could have been let go in March. So as horrible as that is, yes they've had a free paid holiday. Will still get redundancy, if applicable, plus accrued annual leave. Before they then claim the benefits.

Their lives will change. But sadly that is not my issue either. I didn't ask to be forever paying off this free ride they've had. And impacting on my future, my retirement, my child's future.

I completely agree with OP. In my company the furloughed staff are on 100% pay. Some will have 3 months off work. Meanwhile many of us who are working have been taking our annual leave to help with juggling the homeschooling etc and furlough envy is very real. We are making everyone take a pro rata amount for the period Apr - Jun and the furloughed people take 2x the pro rata amount. We get 30 days a year and nobody takes any at the start of the year so everyone will have at least 15 days left to take in the second half of the year (except me who’s using it now to cope with my current set up). This seems very fair to me when they’re on 100% pay but the amount of entitled moaning has been shocking.

It's a difficult one and of course ranting on social media is actually the problem.
FWIW my organisation (topping up to 90%/non furlough on 90% too but via unpaid leave so working 90% too) have said everybody has to take 60% holiday by end of August & no carry over to 2021 whereas it's usually 5 days) so that they don't have everyone taking the whole of Dec off just as we are returning to some semblance of "normality"
I get the logic personally.

Re: annual leave, me and my colleagues are working from home on full pay (for which I feel
Incredibly lucky even though if pregnant with a near 3 yr old under my feet). But we have been asked to take annual leave as usual, they don’t want a build up. It is actually down to the employer when an employer can take leave.

As for furlough and how dare you smile if you aren’t working- disgusting attitude and very shortsighted. No one wanted this pandemic, I’m sure 99% of people would rather have their lives and living back, there is always someone worse off in this situation.

@SoloMummy that's a really awful thing for you to say. So force a lot of families out of work, struggle to feed their kids during a global pandemic when nobody is likly to be hiring? How cold your heart must be. Thank god the government put this scheme in place to protect businesses but also financially protect people. Stop being so bitter and be grateful you have a job.

I didn't ask to be forever paying off this free ride they've had. And impacting on my future, my retirement, my child's future.

Oh get a grip. Stop being so dramatic and selfish. Must be so horrible for you having a secure job during a time like this. You must be one of those that also hates anyone in benefits?

I too think people are very entitled. Furloughed for 6 months until October and then keep all your holiday entitlement? What a joke!

I just think that the last few months has been tough on many many people for a whole range of reasons and people like OP should practice a little more empathy and kindness without making sweeping generalized statements.

Fact is: you don't know what the woman was saving her leave for. It might have been to swan around in her garden and drink gin. Or it could have been that she had planned to save it to see relatives or cover school holidays or many other things. You don't know.

Some people are taking the piss, some people aren't, and unless you are really up close in someones circumstances, you don't know who is who.

Kindness doesn't hurt OP

Maybe but do you know what? I don’t feel like being kind. I just don’t.

I am not furloughed, i have to work, and I also have to take leave, as per usual, not save it up for later, not carry it over.

and agree, furloughed until october?
then have all your leave
no way

@SoloMummy I'm not really interested in your opinion, I've seen you on various threads slagging off the furloughed.

I was on furlough for 5 weeks, then back in work from beginning of May. My annual holiday should have been 18the May. It has never been discussed. I went to work as normal that week. I don’t know the arrangements for if/when I can take that weeks holiday. I’m not bothered. I’ve had 5 weeks off work at 80% pay and I have a job. My entitlement to holiday hasn’t really crossed my mind. I’m sure that at some stage we will have a discussion about it. When it happens, great, I’m not going to lose sleep over lost holidays.

Maybe but do you know what? I don’t feel like being kind. I just don’t.

Well aren't you lovely. Having a little tantrum and throwing your toys out the pram, are we? Well, too bad. I have zero sympathy for you and people like you.

most of us are under stress and anxiety whether working or on furlough!

[quote GreytExpectations]@SoloMummy that's a really awful thing for you to say. So force a lot of families out of work, struggle to feed their kids during a global pandemic when nobody is likly to be hiring? How cold your heart must be. Thank god the government put this scheme in place to protect businesses but also financially protect people. Stop being so bitter and be grateful you have a job.[/quote]
Short term pain for them on benefits if redundant.
But furlough means short term gain for them and long term pain for us all. That's the short sighted nature of the scheme.
Pensions will be negatively impacted. My child's education and future negatively impacted by the inevitable cuts that will follow. Social care will suffer as will NHS and emergency services. So yes, maybe cold hearted, but most of these people, more than 50% are going to end up on benefits, but will have cost us billions more.

And we will end up paying for those billions for decades....

I wonder how you'll feel about this in another decade or two when we're still paying for it.