To find it scary that people have willingly downloaded the track and trace app?

[SunnyThatsMyName]

This all reminds me of the start of some sci-fi/thriller movie.
Why are people so easily giving away their details to this useless government?

If you have a mobile phone, bank cards, store cards, use WiFi, travel cards, car etc you're being tracked already anyway. What difference does it make with a tracing app?

I was willing to before the whole Cummings saga, but they can fuck off now.

@OrangeGinLemonFanta

Do you know how much of your information the government already holds?

Do you know how the app works?

If not, please read up and come back.
If you do please describe in detail what information the app will pass on to the Govt that they don't already have.

Nobody knows how much of their information the government already holds.

The government don't have the information that the app will pass on. If they did there wouldn't be any point in launching the app....!

I don't know anyone whose downloading it, a lot of people are skeptical. I wouldn't trust this government, so I'm not, but best of luck to those who will.

Ok OP, nice 1st post.

So you think the government don’t already have any details on you? Are you totally off grid?

‘Open to scammers’, you’re so clever you wouldn’t be taken in by them surely??!!

No need to know you haven’t been in contact with anyone? That’s ok, but what about YOUR friends and family?

I call bullshit WUM.

Oh, OP, if you think you're in any way able to protect your data by not downloading an app, you are sorely mistaken. It's all already out there for anyone to find if they really want to.

@TheWordWomanIsTaken

A malicious random could ruin someone financially, cost them their job etc and the recipient wouldn't even know who it was. Until Cummings and his government come up with a way of compensating people for their ACTUAL lost income not paltry SSP, then I won't be downloading. If they want it to work they need to protect people.

A malicious person wouldn't need you to have the app to do that!

Downloading the app will not protect you from being named as a contact by someone and being asked to self-isolate.

The only thing that will reduce your risk of being potentially infectious is avoiding as much avoidable contact as possible while infection rates are still quite high.

Not all contact is avoidable, but if you're worried about being identified as potentially infectious, the best way to do that is to stay away from other people as much as possible for now.

And generally, if local infection rates where you live are low, there won't be anything like as much chance of you being contacted. Win win!

Would be interesting to see how the Cummings saga has affected the number of people willing to download the app, I think it will be a significant factor.

Abbccc see my post 18:27 if you don’t think they have access to any information

@rosie1959
You may think the Government can know nothing about you without downloading this app?
My son had to have clearance for entering delicate areas before he met up with the people that did this they knew everything about him bank details friends anyone that had convictions what he googled absolutely everything

Let's say you're right and this company (and I'm pretty sure it's being developed by a private company) really does have this level of info on us, what data points are they getting from the app that they don't already have?

Would people be more willing to use it if it didn't work on a phone, but on say a bracelet?

This has been suggested, and I can see a number of advantages.

– It would be available to people without smartphones.

– It would be obvious when we came to "mission over" and people would stop wearing the bracelets. There would be no chance of people forgetting, or not bothering, or not knowing how to remove the app when Covid track & trace was over, so there would be less opportunity for mission creep like this.

– It would be an expensive and very visible exercise for the government to renew bracelets in, say, a few years' time, so the physical/battery/software decay of the bracelets would itself provide a time-limit. This would mean that any "new missions" the government "invited" us to give permission for, using the app, would be subject to at least as much scrutiny as the Covid T&T.

– It couldn't interact with other software or website use or data on your phone. So there would be no risk of mission creep or data scraping using such interactions, and no problems with interoperability, and fewer challenges of making the app work on so many different versions and brands of phones.

This doesn't get around the fundamental issues of being tracked, or of people gaming the system with false reports or by leaving the tracker behind, of course. There would also be issues re manufacturing and distributing millions of bracelets.

But I saw it suggested elsewhere and wondered what people would prefer as users?

"Downloading the app will not protect you from being named as a contact by someone and being asked to self-isolate."

That should say that NOT downloading the app will not protect you from being named as a contact by someone...

I've not downloaded it but only because I live in a seaside town that's been constantly mobbed with day trippers, so I'm concerned every time I step outside I'll be told to quarantine for 14 days. I'm pretty sure the government, Facebook, Google and anyone else who wants it already has my data though so I'm not bothered by that.

I agree with you completely, OP. You will (as evidenced in these comments) get many people who try to imply that you are wacky for not trusting the government though.

Vulnerable people need to isolate. The rest of us need to get on with it.

You do realise there are several million "vulnerable" including teachers, doctors, nurses, hospital consultants, train drivers, etc. Who do you think will do these skilled jobs if millions of people are under house arrest??

@rosie1959

Abbccc see my post 18:27 if you don’t think they have access to any information

Ok, well,if they already know everything why would I download the app?

KnockDownNijas they would allow the company developing this app this information
But only pointing out that the Government do have far more information than we think He does not have that clearance now but if he did they would know I was posting this

And this ideology of ‘well they’ve already got our data so why bother trying to protect it’ is the reason we live in a world where our data is not protected.

Whoops that should would not let

OP - I'm with you.

Firstly. I don't trust this government to manage this effectively.

Secondly, breaches aside, Apps can be updated and their scope extended. How many people actually read updates, terms & conditions that they passively sign up to?

Thirdly; Liberty, once given up, is almost impossible to get back. This could easily be the thin end of the wedge.

I’m not keen but will download it and delete as soon as I no longer need it. You can disable the app so times when you feel you’re not at risk you can disable it - this is what the covid ward staff will do or clearly they’ll all be told to self isolate constantly.

@rosie1959
They aren't supposed to have "more information than we think", they're supposed to be completely transparent with the information they have and what they do with it.

Personally, I try to minimise the personal data I give to companies and the number of places I use it (for example, Mumsnet doesn't have my real name and I signed up with an email I use for every company that doesn't actually need my address and full name, but asks for it. It isn't connected to my real details anywhere).

Even if you're not concerned about mission creep, another poorly secured database with your personal information (including your location, or at least who you've been near at all times) is a delicious target for hackers and scammers.

I am not against the idea of an app per se. A few weeks ago I would have considered it.

Now? Not a cat’s chance in hell.

The entire government response has been an absolute shambles. Then this week we had the Cummings incident, and I found out who they have awarded the contract to.

If we had an entirely separate, publicly run system set up in Wales I would probably download it. The shower in Westminster who have done a dodgy deal with a dodgy company? No bloody way

Thirdly; Liberty, once given up, is almost impossible to get back. This could easily be the thin end of the wedge.

Let’s remember, we’re being asked to download an app that will tell us if we’re at risk and prevent us putting our loved ones at risk. We can control when it’s active and we are putting it on our own device, which we control and can delete at any time. Once a vaccine exists then we can delete. Stop scaremongering and putting people at risk by encouraging them to make choices based on fear-inducing lies!

are we asked to download the app of doom or do we just look it up ourselves?