To find it scary that people have willingly downloaded the track and trace app?

[SunnyThatsMyName]

This all reminds me of the start of some sci-fi/thriller movie.
Why are people so easily giving away their details to this useless government?

@PersephoneandHades

And this ideology of ‘well they’ve already got our data so why bother trying to protect it’ is the reason we live in a world where our data is not protected.

Awareness of how much data is already out there just reduces the perceived cost of giving them more data in certain circumstances, and makes it more likely that the benefits might outweigh that cost.

I'm quite protective of my data in general, but I'm aware that sometimes there are benefits to sharing it. If I'm not significantly increasing the amount of data someone has about me, that's sometimes a relevant factor in my decision.

It should be a conscious decision, but there's no choice that's always right or always wrong.

[quote KnockDownNinjas]@rosie1959
They aren't supposed to have "more information than we think", they're supposed to be completely transparent with the information they have and what they do with it.

Personally, I try to minimise the personal data I give to companies and the number of places I use it (for example, Mumsnet doesn't have my real name and I signed up with an email I use for every company that doesn't actually need my address and full name, but asks for it. It isn't connected to my real details anywhere).

Even if you're not concerned about mission creep, another poorly secured database with your personal information (including your location, or at least who you've been near at all times) is a delicious target for hackers and scammers.[/quote]
Probably at cross purposes here The company developing this app will not obviously have access to this sort of information But I was just pointing out that are data can be accessed if necessary I was most surprised when my son had this clearance how much they already knew

In general, I think some people miss the point that there's a huge difference between having our data together in a single database, and having our data spread over lots of separate databases.

Think back a few years to when, say, "the government" (my GP) had my medical records in a filing cabinet. And "the government" had my tax records (at the Inland Revenue as was).

But never the twain shall meet. Well, not unless someone was already interested in PerkingFaintly and made a query explicitly about PerkingFaintly to each separate body.

That's completely different from a single database which can easily be interrogated to turn up all people who "are prescribed drug X" AND "claimed tax exemption Y" AND "earned more than Z". Or whatever.

I'm not talking about this Covid T&T app; I don't know what data it has (although I know it has some NHS). This is a general point about the government or any other body having data. The more integrated the databases containing our data, the more they can be used for fishing expeditions and the like.

Even if the government are doing this to harvest loads of data, what makes you think you are of any interest to them?

You do realise you can be traced anyway via your phone anyway. You don’t need this app for the govt to see where you are IF they want to. Not that I’m sure why they’d care where you are to be honest ..

@m0therofdragons
The issue is that these things are not mutually exclusive. The thin end of the wedge is usually driven in when there's a reasonable case for it. If it was November 2019 and the government was talking about installing an app on your phone so that they know where you've been and who you're in contact with, they'd get short shrift. They still would if it was made compulsory, which is why it's voluntary.

What are the guidelines regarding when it will be "ok" to uninstall?

At any rate, there will be full tear-downs of this app when/if it's properly in play. I'll wait until then to make my decision.

What I find scary is the number of people who believe conspiracy theories and then publicly post about their lack of understanding over how the app works.

“Scammers will hack us!”
“The government want all my data!”

You know the type...

Can I just point out that if you get called by a tracer you are on our system. You won’t get called again. You won’t need to isolate numerous times

But what if you are called, self isolate, don’t get ill so go about your business again but then come in contact again with someone that has it ?

Don’t forget that you need to actually test positive to provide contact details to the track and trace team. So arseholes can’t just go around naming people so they have to self isolate. Well, not unless they actually have COVID 19.

Problem is whilst they might ot have access to lots of data some data is collected and if you then demanded phone companies for data you could join everything up.

It's happened before was it Facebook or google that refused to hand over data to a government, cant remember exact details.

Even if this app assigns you an anonymous id somehow they have to know that is a unique device e.e. using imei and not the same one so theoretically if you took even just that data plus data that has the name address of the phone imei hacked from phone supplier...and you then hacked this app you could track a person almost realtime.

It's not impossible! Just a lot of ifs

I personally would want to know if I had inadvertently got too close to someone who had contracted the virus. I could then isolate myself from my family my daughter has type 1 diabetes I would not want to pass anything to her The app data or no data is a small price

It’s not ready to download yet is it?

I don't use any social media. Disable tracking cookies. Mumsnet I am honest on but it's my separate online email not linked to my real name and details.

I do not put my details into anywhere unnecessarily. I will never turn on voice control ever. I turn my mic off. My Gmail and Google account even use my Alias. I will never get an Alexa etc.

So no I will not be downloading a tracking app for anyone.

Security experts have gone on record for weeks about this app and Australia launched a similar one and had to close it. I will never trust this government in particular and if they do have some data then no reason that they need to have more data.

And yes if you buy a £1 sim card from the corner shop and everything is turned off and the sim is not registered to you and you can keep your ip address safe with a vpn, then maybe I would use it but on principle of what this government is doing and has done, I will not.

The government could have agreed to the Google way at least they understand the implications and blocked the potential for data harvesting in their app. The government had this choice and choose not to do so. The government actively choose the harder route so in the future it could use the data. I make my choice based on that and choose not to use it.

Its far more selfish not to wear a mask in public than to not download the app. The app may well track and trace but wouldn't not passing on the virus on the first place be better yet so many are against wearing masks.

If you choose not to wear a mask that protects others from you passing on the virus when symptomless then you are deluded and much more selfish.

The UK public are stupid and too willing to give up their freedom. A large minority would vote in this government and the likes of them, time and time again. I will not trust those people or this government ever.

Sorry not sorry but I choose me and my freedom and the track and trace people are free to contact me in the usual way if needed. My Dr and dentist have my telephone no. I will comply with quarantine if needed and requested to.

@Winterwoollies

What I find scary is the number of people who believe conspiracy theories and then publicly post about their lack of understanding over how the app works.

“Scammers will hack us!”
“The government want all my data!”

You know the type...

You can take a look at an analysis of the trial version of the app here and make your own decisions. Keeping in mind it may change by the time it gets to us and updates may change functionality:

privacyinternational.org/long-read/3752/coronavirus-tracking-uk-what-we-know-so-far

I’m wondering how they’ll collect data about other ppl when the tracers contact people without breaking data protection laws

The government already have my data. They know what I look like too via my passport and driving licence.

A malicious person wouldn't need you to have the app to do that!

Downloading the app will not protect you from being named as a contact by someone and being asked to self-isolate.

The only thing that will reduce your risk of being potentially infectious is avoiding as much avoidable contact as possible while infection rates are still quite high.

Not all contact is avoidable, but if you're worried about being identified as potentially infectious, the best way to do that is to stay away from other people as much as possible for now

And generally, if local infection rates where you live are low, there won't be anything like as much chance of you being contacted. Win win!

I know the above!! I'm not an idiot. I have remained working throughout this crisis in a critical role. My questions was around having to isolate more than once and how this could ruin someone financially. I'm aware that you don't need the poxy app for that to happen.
But, as an aside, I still won't be downloading the app when it is available.
I haven't broken lockdown once, not once. I have very close family members who are shielded. I will continue my own lockdown where I can and continue to use shops at quiet times etc.

^question, not questions.
argghhhh

@Lenny1980

Don’t forget that you need to actually test positive to provide contact details to the track and trace team. So arseholes can’t just go around naming people so they have to self isolate. Well, not unless they actually have COVID 19.

No but scammers can phone people and pretend that they are from the T and T team.

Somebody just typed the words "I don't use social media" into a social page.

We can stop now. The No to downloading have lost.

Assuming the app works how they say it is gonna work, then it's not really collecting anything sensitive, is it? As in, it detects when you were near another person with the app, but you remain anonymous?

So the concern is only if you think the gov are covertly using the app to spy on you, which of course would be highly sinister, but presumably much less likely.

I guess then it comes down to a toss up between do you believe the government would/are going to do that, vs. do you want to improve chances of reducing the spread of the virus and the number of deaths? Cos everything I've read seems to suggest that good tracing is the best way to do that until a vaccine is ready.

What app? I didn’t think it was ready and thought track and trace was instead?

Somebody just typed the words "I don't use social media" into a social page

Most people don't count forums as social media.

MN is a forum, not social media siring1

Please could someone who is of the opinion that the government already know everything about us tell me why we need the app.