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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that whitty and vallance did not seem to agree with Boris today

155 replies

Frozenfan2019 · 28/05/2020 20:19

Interested to know if it's just me who thought their presentation and the way in which they answered questions today suggested that they were opposed to Johnson easing lockdown. He spent ten minutes saying how much progress we have made and how we are in a good position and then they seemed to basically contradict this completely and say that things are still bad, the numbers are still high, r is almost 1 already etc.

So aibu to think they would orefer it if lockdown continued?

OP posts:
pooiepooie25 · 29/05/2020 12:56

Totally agree with you OP.

SecretSpAD · 29/05/2020 12:56

@FliesandPies yes, you're right and I do believe that the advice and views that these two hold have been expressed in private.

The trouble is that politicians, and especially the bunch we have at the moment, are impervious to the advice of "experts" unless it is to their benefit to follow it. I very much doubt whether BJ and the others give a flying fuck about how ,any people die - but they do know that the higher the death toll, the worse it looks for them.

FliesandPies · 29/05/2020 13:10

The trouble is that politicians, and especially the bunch we have at the moment, are impervious to the advice of "experts" unless it is to their benefit to follow it.

Absolutely, and there's nothing we can do to influence that so we rely on those experts not to give validity to what the politicians are saying by standing next to them in unity while they're saying it.

If Whitty and Vallance had a genuine concern and conscience about it I believe they would refuse to take any further part and either challenge the PM to sack them (generating more bad publicity for him) or resign and use their current high public visibility to make their warnings heard more clearly.

SecretSpAD · 29/05/2020 13:30

@FliesandPies can see either of them as rebels to be honest!

I had several arguments with ministers over the correct course of action, but I didn't quit because I was always told by my boss that it's better to stay, give them rope and then influence them into changing their stance.

However, I know that wouldn't work with the current bunch of twats so as soon as BJ was elected leader I walked.

I can't condemn Patrick Vallance and Chris Whitty for remaining and hopefully trying to change things from the inside. If they walk, then the smear campaign really would take off, so doubt that would achieve anything other than two more experienced, honest men of integrity lost from the civil service.

Tfoot75 · 29/05/2020 13:52

I can't work out why people think the lockdown and length of it have been critical to the death toll. It's pretty clear to me that it is the probably appallingly controlled epidemics in hospitals and care homes that has caused this, not what's happening in the community. Indeed the lockdown was to gain breathing space while the hospital epidemic occurred. The government havent been upfront about this but locking down for longer isn't going to do anything when it's still rocketing around nhs and care home staff.

jasjas1973 · 29/05/2020 14:28

@Earnsomething In a normal situation, where lives are not at stake, then fine, provide your council behind closed doors..

However, these are not normal tines and as far as i can see, by not speaking out, whilst in office, they must agree with the actions of this govt.
Its gone way past trying to influence policy in private and trying to say in any enquiry "I was just following orders...." won't wash.

jasjas1973 · 29/05/2020 14:33

counsel

itsgettingweird · 29/05/2020 14:36

Tfoot that's interesting. It would be good to know in the briefings how many cases were hospital, how many care homes and home many community. Personally I'd also like to see how the cases spread over the country too.
When this first stated I could see my country had the highest number of confined cases for about 3 weeks. So I knew before lockdown I had to up my cautiousness.

Larkspurandhollyhocks · 29/05/2020 14:47

@SecretSpAD

Is there anything at all that the civil service could do to influence the removal of Cummings from post?

ssd · 29/05/2020 14:49

It's actually pretty scary to think we have the worst government possible to deal with the worst pandemic in almost 100 years.

I wonder what the history lessons of the future will look like.

nibdedibble · 29/05/2020 14:51

@FliesandPies I imagine Whitty, Vallance et al are saving their speaking out for the enquiry.

That's a long time, and potentially a lot more deaths, away.
-
I know, and I don't doubt they're doing their utmost to influence things right now, as they probably have been since 31 December. This government is shit. What's better, to leave the committee rudderless and potentially open to somebody terrible being appointed; or to stay and do what you can?

I don't envy them one bit.

SecretSpAD · 29/05/2020 15:14

Is there anything at all that the civil service could do to influence the removal of Cummings from post

I wish there was. The attitude towards the civil service at the moment is toxic. We are the ones who should be briefing ministers. We actually are experts in our fields and many of us have dedicated our lives to the job (not me, I've been in and out a lot over the last 25 years - but with my specialism that's fine).

My husband joined straight from university 30 years ago. He funded his own part time post grad qualifications and does many training courses each year. He also reads all the journals in his area of expertise and is one of the leading experts in his field. Does his minister listen to him? Does he fuck. So my husband is going to wait until this current crisis is over (because he's loyal) and then handing in his notice and joining me in the far more lucrative world of consultancy work.

BruceAndNosh · 29/05/2020 15:16

There was an infection control specialist on the radio today (I didn't catch her actual title) explaining about cleaning bathroom properly if it is used by someone from outside your household. She was very cautious about bbq and all the sharing that entails. She recommended that if meeting socially, each household should bring its own picnic, plates cutlery and take it home to wash

Larkspurandhollyhocks · 29/05/2020 15:22

@SecretSpAD

That's terrible and so depressing to read Sad

SecretSpAD · 29/05/2020 15:35

That's terrible and so depressing to read

It's equally depressing to write to be honest. I've been on here for a few years now, under various names, but haven't ever talked about my career as much as I have in the last two days. In fact I have tended just to mention I'm a doctor (which I am).

We both feel that we are done with that world now. Though might go back if Labour and Keir Starmer get back in....I'm allowed now to say what my political views are in public as well. It's liberating. But now we've moved mostly to the SW and have the kids with us - they are much happier here where they grew up.....maybe once my husband finally leaves we can leave it all behind for good

itsgettingweird · 29/05/2020 15:45

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-lockdown-restrictions-cases-deaths-threat-level-boris-johnson-a9538751.html

This explains very well that we are still at level 4 and current restrictions should remain.

Inkpaperstars · 29/05/2020 15:51

@SecretSpAD Thanks for humouring my curiosity!

SecretSpAD · 29/05/2020 16:01

@Inkpaperstars believe me you are nit the only one who is!:

CallmeAngelina · 29/05/2020 16:38

There was an infection control specialist on the radio today (I didn't catch her actual title) explaining about cleaning bathroom properly if it is used by someone from outside your household.

I would be curious to know how we are expected to manage dozens of children using the same few toilets in schools, by the same token.

itsgettingweird · 29/05/2020 16:48

I'm hoping the common sense of the British public prevails over the bluster of Boris.

ItsSummer · 29/05/2020 21:44

@CallmeAngelina

There was an infection control specialist on the radio today (I didn't catch her actual title) explaining about cleaning bathroom properly if it is used by someone from outside your household.

I would be curious to know how we are expected to manage dozens of children using the same few toilets in schools, by the same token.

Not to mention the massive increase in staff using just one or two toilets
lilgreen · 30/05/2020 04:47

Yes I agee. We have one, windowless toilet for staff at school.

Pixxie7 · 30/05/2020 05:29

If the track and trace works as claimed there is bound to be an increase in the number of cases, but at least we may have a better indication of the true state of affairs. A big if.

SophieB100 · 30/05/2020 05:38

Sage have released minutes of their meetings, a summary is here:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/29/sage-minutes-reveal-how-uk-advisers-reacted-to-coronavirus-crisis

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 30/05/2020 06:04

People do not seem to understand that there are sort of two stories here - the R rate & mortality rate in the general non vulnerable population, and that of care homes etc.

Keeping everyone locked down isn't going to solve the care home issue! It's just a massive economic and social crisis for little real effect.