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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that whitty and vallance did not seem to agree with Boris today

155 replies

Frozenfan2019 · 28/05/2020 20:19

Interested to know if it's just me who thought their presentation and the way in which they answered questions today suggested that they were opposed to Johnson easing lockdown. He spent ten minutes saying how much progress we have made and how we are in a good position and then they seemed to basically contradict this completely and say that things are still bad, the numbers are still high, r is almost 1 already etc.

So aibu to think they would orefer it if lockdown continued?

OP posts:
itsgettingweird · 29/05/2020 05:40

Just have you any evidence Sage said herd immunity and DC/BJ said lockdown.

Because I've read the papers from SPI B and M from before lockdown and they were all giving models of effects of locking down differing areas

itsgettingweird · 29/05/2020 05:46

If people read the actual leper's they'll see there's a whole group who are actually behavioural scientists.
Why focus solely on how people will behave in response.

glitterelf · 29/05/2020 07:43

The problem is that the government throughout have said they are following the science so of course it's going to be alarming when it's being pushed to one side and appears to be ignored. We haven't met the 5 tests but I guess that doesn't matter now. If we have a second wave it will be at the hands of the government.

IndecentFeminist · 29/05/2020 07:50

Much of the initial modelling has been widely debunked for being flawed hasn't it?

EdwinaMay · 29/05/2020 08:03

I can't wait until a few months on and thousands are unemployed, we are struggling to pay for NHS, benefits and everyone is demanding to know why we locked down at all, jeopardising everyone's children's futures. We should have been like Sweden!

Earnsomething · 29/05/2020 08:28

I love the way Chris makes it completely clear what he's thinking whilst always being nothing less than perfectly polite Grin

Earnsomething · 29/05/2020 08:30

Oh, I'm sure I typed his surname too, he deserves much more respect than that, sorry Prof Whitty.

itsgettingweird · 29/05/2020 08:32

Indecent I wasn't awarded it had be proven to be flawed. Doesn't mean it wasn't but I've not seen that. I've read a wide variety of data and opinions from all across different medium.
From what I can gather we followed some differences than other counties. Some of those were of course based on capacity. We can't do what we can't do. I've been very careful not to fall into the trap of believing we are following a different science than everyone else.
We've done some things the same and some different. But the same can be said for other countries when comparing themselves against others.

I agree our death rate by numbers has - so far - been one of the highest. But when looking at other data presentations our death rate per mil population we aren't in the same position.

Excess deaths are released in different time periods for different countries and we have so far had higher than Italy and Spain.

I've always said I don't think anyone can get this right. It's a new virus. But I do think there have been areas where they have got it very wrong. How and why I've not yet discovered. I'm still on the fence about how the care homes crisis came about. Bad science or bad government policy. Or just lack of tests and not understanding the importance of this. Which begs the question why they didn't understand the importance as the only thing I remember the WHO staring was test test test.
I remember saying to my friend I thought I knew more about the importance of having a test for this virus than I actually did about the virus itself!

Tfoot75 · 29/05/2020 08:48

The numbers as a country look fairly high, but when you look at the testing statistics, there isn't any area that's experiencing a lot of infections really, it's just 5 or less in most districts. Which to me at the moment, suggests no epidemic. It's carrying on rumbling along in the background, to me suggesting it's linked to nhs/care home staff rather than community transition. There aren't any 'clusters', the guidance doesn't allow for anyone to be within 2m of anyone else, except for bubbles in some schools/nurseries from next week. So apart from there still being a lot of infections cumulatively, and more in the North East than elsewhere, the situation with the spread is fairly ideal.

SecretSpAD · 29/05/2020 09:42

@Inkpaperstars I honestly don't know and none of my old friends do either. He's very private and very professional.

I a, ashamed to say that we have discussed it at length on zoom calls and my husband is convinced he is gay.....until it was pointed out that all of my husbands friends, family and colleagues thought he was gay as well until he met me! He's also a shy, slightly on the spectrum, academic type now working in the civil service.

VenusTiger · 29/05/2020 10:27

@user1471530109 I thought they made it v obvious. I think we all knew the economy would win.

win - what a weird thing to say just to attack the govt. No-one wins here. It's lives vs livelihoods. Grow up.

shinynewapple2020 · 29/05/2020 11:08

We have done a garden BBQ with DS and his GF. We put them at the bottom of the garden with a disposable BBQ. They bought their own food, drink and utensils . And hand gel!

They only come for a couple of hours max and go home before needing the toilet.

I clean down the chairs and fences after they've gone.

shinynewapple2020 · 29/05/2020 11:09

Sorry my post was a response to queries earlier in the thread as to if a BBQ could be safe

Abbccc · 29/05/2020 11:15

We should have been like Sweden! That wouldn't work because the UK isn't like Sweden.

FliesandPies · 29/05/2020 11:53

I love the way Chris makes it completely clear what he's thinking whilst always being nothing less than perfectly polite

I'm aware there is a lot of affection for Whitty but I don't feel it. If he doesn't agree with what Johnson or Hancock or any of the others are saying it's his duty to state that. That goes for Vallance as well.

These people are going to be blamed by Johnson for a lot of the mess - they already have their slogan-alibi 'following the science'.

I would have a lot more respect for them if they spoke out, plainly with their fears and their strong advice instead of trying to politely signal it.

Earnsomething · 29/05/2020 12:01

Do you speak out publically against your employer FliesandPies. How would that go?

I tell my employer when I think their approach is wrong, I aim to influence their decisions, as I consider necessary but ultimately, if I wish to stay employed, publically I have to support the official line. If that became too difficult for me I would resign as a matter of conscience but then I'd have no opportunity to exercise any influence at all.

A difficult position to be in during the current crisis, although I suspect there were discussions along those lines over the last few days.

jasjas1973 · 29/05/2020 12:20

Do you speak out publicly against your employer FliesandPies. How would that go?

That's their job, it's not to put their careers ahead of public health, rather short sighted because once this is over, these people will be thrown to the wolves.

Personally, i no longer have any respect for the scientific advisors.

FliesandPies · 29/05/2020 12:25

Earnsomething I have done in the past - no, it didn't go well for me but I felt I had to do it, it was a matter of conscience.

This isn't just any employer/employee - these are key advisers in a public health crisis. People's lives literally depend on the advice they give so the public cannot afford for them to stand there like dummies while their advice is undermined by the PM.

Are they also trying to set up their alibi for the future enquiry? 'well he was our employer and the PM so we couldn't go against him'.

nibdedibble · 29/05/2020 12:29

I'm really worried.
The daily number of new cases and deaths has basically plateaued, but plateaued high.

We need a stronger lockdown for a short while to get it right down. It's just not going to happen though.

nibdedibble · 29/05/2020 12:31

I imagine Whitty, Vallance et al are saving their speaking out for the enquiry.

Right now they wouldn't be able to have any influence on policy even if they did. This government is so craven they would just smear them, and my guess is they know it.
(I feel pretty sorry for them tbh.)

Earnsomething · 29/05/2020 12:34

It's not jasjas, if he speaks out he has to go, then he can't support the public health message at all. His job is to advise and influence policy, if he was in a position where he feels he has no influence or not enough influence, he'd have to step down and then, perhaps, he can speak out, but he can't do it in post.

It's not only about his career, frankly the public profile he's gained through ths will have done wonders for his prospects if he wanted to use it. If he speaks out publically he automatically loses his position of influence and therefore cannot help the effort at all.

FliesandPies · 29/05/2020 12:34

I imagine Whitty, Vallance et al are saving their speaking out for the enquiry.

That's a long time, and potentially a lot more deaths, away.

SecretSpAD · 29/05/2020 12:36

@FliesandPies civil servants have to remain neutral. I worked in the service under both a la our government and a Tory one. I also worked as an advisor with a Tory government and a labour and Tory London mayor. To this day no one I have worked with and for would have a clue about my political leanings.

SecretSpAD · 29/05/2020 12:40

And if you don't like the way things are run now in the civil service the. Just wait until Dominic Cummings fills it full of his friends and lackeys.

FliesandPies · 29/05/2020 12:43

@SecretSpAD civil servants have to remain neutral

I understand that they have to remain neutral politically - for instance I had no problem with them not answering Q's about the Cummings scandal.

They surely cannot remain 'neutral' in the advice they give? They are there to provide advice, backed up by their seniority, on how to cope with the pandemic - so far our 'coping' has been exposed as very very flawed.

If they are giving advice and the PM is then undermining it, as I said before I would have though it was their duty in terms of their role to speak up and not just let it slide.