To think that whitty and vallance did not seem to agree with Boris today

[Frozenfan2019]

Interested to know if it's just me who thought their presentation and the way in which they answered questions today suggested that they were opposed to Johnson easing lockdown. He spent ten minutes saying how much progress we have made and how we are in a good position and then they seemed to basically contradict this completely and say that things are still bad, the numbers are still high, r is almost 1 already etc.

So aibu to think they would orefer it if lockdown continued?

I am dreading going back into the classroom next week with so many children. Now I know SAGE don’t think it’s safe, I feel even worse.

@AlternativePerspective

We haven’t got this disease under control yet and Boris is lifting social restrictions to divert attention from the whole Dominic Cummings fiasco. He’s an absolute moron. nope. There possibility of restrictions being lifted from June were announced in the briefing nearly three weeks ago.

And look at how they’ve fixed things to make it work. Amazingly convenient really.

Why would a virus that has only infected a small % of the population "Burn itself out"? because it is estimated that a lot of people carry natural immunity.

Because a lot of people may have already had the virus (it’s starting to emerge that people may actually have had it as early as January) and therefore will be immune.

Because the virus could mutate to a weaker strain.

Just because something is happening now doesn’t make it an exact science. The whole understanding of this virus has changed significantly over the past three months and will continue to do so.

There are people within the WHO who are saying the virus will likely burn out, I would trust the opinion of someone in the WHO rather than the doom mongers on the internet who can’t wait for a second wave...

Completely agree. I tuned in just as Boris handed over and as I listened to the numbers I thought it must have just been announced that we were locking down again.

I don’t get why they are allowing this!! I thought we were following the science??

It has always been a balancing act, hence why when SAGE suggested we go down the Sweden (and others) route of herd immunity Cummings/Tories suggested we go into lockdown because of public pressure.

Norway specialists are now coming out and saying lockdown wasn't needed, thats the thing with science, there is no clearly defined right or wrong path with a world wide pandemic.

@AlternativePerspective the estimate is that around 6% of the population have already had it. Hardly a lot of people.

it was clear to me that Vallance and Whitty think the easing of lockdown is a week or two early - whether they're right or wrong i'm not sure

equally clear to me that these latest govt announcements along with the re-opening of shops etc have been brought in now to try to deflect the news away from the Cummings debacle

I didn't think this at all.

I think they were irritated at the press attempts to put them on the spot and trip them up. The 'blink if you need help' style comments were particularly ridiculous. It's patronising in the extreme, they hold a lot of power in the sense that their resignation would be disastrous for the government and their roadmaps.

But they seemed in agreement with Boris to me, they are after all presenting a rehearsed keynote together.

I did think that when Sir Patrick mentioned the guidance about 2m being just that, guidance Chris Witty stepped in and covered a bit. Reiterating the message that it was vital it was followed.

I was happy to hear Sir Patrick acknowledge that to be honest.

I respect both of their options and expertise. I know it's difficult for some to consider that anything Boris is doing is correct in any way, but I think given they are his advisors and haven't resigned, you can assume they are on largely the same page.

They will be remembered forever for their part in this. I really don't think they would stand beside him and tell the nation anything they fundamentally disagreed with.

Minty we can’t stay in lockdown any longer.

I think after what we have all been through in the last three months we are all too familiar with the protocol of social distancing etc. BJ and the scientists are working on the assumption that people apply a bit of common sense coming out of lockdown. He is saying what we can now do, it’s optional not mandatory. If you don’t want to go to retail shops that’s fine, you are perfectly entitled to go to work come home and food shop once a week if you prefer. You do what your comfortable with.

Regarding the economic costs of the pandemic, I think in the 2008 crash about £300 billion was given to the banks. I know paying for the coronavirus will be even higher. This Insight radio programme interviews economists on how the world will pay for the pandemic was interesting. www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3cszl3d

Apparently some economists argue a sovereign country like UK which has its own currency and central bank means the govt need not to be afraid of borrowing a lot of money on the financial markets for a considerable amount of time and the very low interest rates currently also help.

Economist Jonathan Porter also discusses the possible measures that can be taken to recover from the cost of pandemic in this article. He also argues UK govt should not be afraid of borrowing a lot through the financial markets to kickstart growth etc and in fact necessary www.kcl.ac.uk/news/more-austerity-is-the-wrong-response-to-the-coronavirus-crisis

I just would rather listen to the scientific experts.

As has been said many times, yes of course their input is exceptionally important, but the government needs to also think of implications outside of covid, whereas they don't neccessarily. In an ideal world yes we would probably hide until this is all over, but that's not feasible without causing a ridiculous amount of damage; much more so than covid.

The scientists have always pointed out that they don't make policy, just advise those who do on the science. Not sure there is a fundamental policy disagreement though, could well be, or it might just be a difference in emphasis.

Boris is very poor on grasping the science and presenting anything clearly. His whole manner of delivery doesn't lend itself to that at all! So Whitty and Vallance need to emphasise things that Boris can't or won't. This stage was always going to be a very dangerous one. They want people to know that, both politicians who are recklessly trashing their own credibility, and members of the public who are tiring of the whole thing.

I think they'd be happier if BBQs or similar were not permitted..sharing items around and particularly drinking alcohol. No one is scrupulously careful after a few drinks.

BBQs with family are not about the economy winning though, they don't do anything for the economy. If anything they hinder it by raising the risk of a second lockdown.

Why are you pleased your kids haven’t been invited to go back to school, given parents won’t be fined for keeping their children at home during the pandemic?

@Greenpop21
There is no SAGE report that says it isn't safe to reopen schools on the 1st. There is however a report written by a group of left wing activists calling themselves 'independent sage', despite this being factually inaccurate, that states that although it is likely to be for political reasons as the group was set up to oppose the government.

It has always been a balancing act, hence why when SAGE suggested we go down the Sweden (and others) route of herd immunity Cummings/Tories suggested we go into lockdown because of public pressure.

Interesting interpretation. It is more widely believed Neil Ferguson’s modelling report (Ferguson was a SAGE member) that predicted 500,000 deaths with zero lockdown measures and 250,000 with some mitigation measures over 2 years if no vaccine or therapeutics available finally made Johnson/govt choose substantial lock down. Considering number of deaths even with lockdown lockdown was necessary.

Norway specialists are now coming out and saying lockdown wasn't needed, thats the thing with science, there is no clearly defined right or wrong path with a world wide pandemic.

Is that a consensus? Or the odd expert? I note Norway locked down early and have had few deaths.

I dont think the scientists get this. The science is justbgoing to backfire, if it doesnt take into account human patterns of behaviour.

Are you serious? For one thing, there are already specialists in this field advising the government. For another, people like Whitty and Vallance give advice strictly on their own field of expertise. The government then make its decisions with all that advice taken into account. But to say that ‘the scientists’ don’t think about ‘human patterns of behaviour’ and you’ve spotted something that ‘scientists’ don’t apparently think about, is phenomenally arrogant.

I’ve never seen such a lot of people think their opinion is of equal weight to those given by people whose entire careers have been in the fields of medicine, psychology, statistics etc as in this pandemic.

It was clear to me that the two scientists were anxious about easing the lockdown measures while the R number is quite close to 1 and that they definitely didn't want to get drawn into the journalists attempts to get them to comment on the Cummings affair.

Clearly there are conflicting views among public opinion about easing the lockdown. On one hand a lot of parents are understandably anxious about letting their children return to school next month, but other people can't wait to organise family barbecues etc. Incidentally it was reported that a Merseyside Labour Councillor is under investigation after her family held a party in her back garden.

I also thought the scientists gave a sensible answer to the question about whether the social distancing guidelines should remain at 2 metres rather than 1 or 1.5 as applies in some other countries. This was brought up by one of the members of the Commons Liaison Committee as it is obviously easier for hospitality businesses to operate at 1 metre than at 2.

Personally I was quite relieved when one of the journalists asked a couple of questions that didn't try to make reference to Mr Cummings. It is obvious that Mr Johnson, rightly or wrongly, has decided to stick by Mr Cummings so it is becoming counter-productive for the journalists to carry on asking questions about that, rather than about the wisdom or otherwise of the easing of the lockdown arrangements.

I definitely listen to the experts Vallance and Whitty. They are so much more articulate and intelligent than Boris .

I left Westminster just as Chris Whitty got that job - not connected! But have heard from people still there that he has ways of subtly getting his message across. They all seem very impressed with him and apparently he's strangely attractive as well to both sexes

@SecretSpAD. This is excellent intelligence soheisgaythenishe

Did Boris say something like " We are not saying that people should be free to travel across the country to stay in other people’s houses " ?

I didn't see it today, just heard the PM's statement on the radio. So they're back? I wondered if they were on strike over the way the mast few days have been handled!

I'm sure the easing has been brought forward to get us to "move on".

I'm sure the easing has been brought forward to get us to "move on".

Exactly this. Matey has screwed up badly over the last week and is hoping by doing this he's going to get some popularity back.

Ultimately many people have been doing what he says can now be done anyway, so it's going to make bugger all difference to his popularity rating.