To think that whitty and vallance did not seem to agree with Boris today

[Frozenfan2019]

Interested to know if it's just me who thought their presentation and the way in which they answered questions today suggested that they were opposed to Johnson easing lockdown. He spent ten minutes saying how much progress we have made and how we are in a good position and then they seemed to basically contradict this completely and say that things are still bad, the numbers are still high, r is almost 1 already etc.

So aibu to think they would orefer it if lockdown continued?

I think they are frustrated that they are presenting the science but it’s not really being taken on board. Tonight was very clear they didn’t agree. They seem to have an air of impatience about them now which they haven’t had before and I don’t blame them. It was easy to see that they feel people should still be cautious and we are nowhere near out of the woods but it sounds like a different story if you only listen to Boris. The bbq comment was a prom example. Use your common sense. Yes sit in the garden but it still isn’t a good idea to use the loo unless you can be sure people will clean everything they’ve touched. They should have made it clear that sharing food and drink still wasn’t advised. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next 2-4 weeks. I for one will continue to play it safe. We will see people but at a distance and without food and only outside. My children are not in years invited back to school and I’m pleased about that.

@FliesandPies

I don't understand why they are still lending validity to the briefings by attending. It seems clear they are being used and it undermines their impartiality and credibility.

Agreed.

Boris just can't help himself can he, such an amateur, so desperate to be liked. The bbq comment was completely unnecessary - and the way Chris Whitty jumped in to try to roll it back was very noticeable. On the rest I don't know. I mean Whitty/Vallance legitimised it by being there, so they must be reasonably comfortable with the approach.

The problem is “ the science” is not the same as “the truth” about what is happening. Science depends on data collected over periods of time, not just days/weeks. Science is referred to as if it is an all seeing oracle which can tell us what to do / not do but the truth is nobody really knows. Scientific “facts” of today are next months/years “errors” as more data becomes available and original hypotheses are shown to be wrong. People just cannot cope with uncertainty because we think we have the answer to “everything”. We don’t.

Most of the science is globally agreed. Hence why other countries followed WHO recommendations. The trouble is politicians choose which bits suit their narrative. So Boris and Dominic delayed and allowed events to go ahead, causing many more infections and deaths. But NZ locked down straight away and had ridge test and trace.. even with a smaller population .. they are clear now and only had 21 deaths. ... having sadly lost a relative and not able to attend a funeral I may be more cynical.. personally I think they should be facing criminal charges!

I agree. I said so earlier elsewhere. But I'm grateful for them.

So as Boris spouts his clap clap I don't need to spend brain energy trying work out how confident I need to be in his confidence.

I listen to what they are saying and make my own mind up how out of lockdown I'm coming!

Scientific “facts” of today are next months/years “errors” as more data becomes available and original hypotheses are shown to be wrong. People just cannot cope with uncertainty because we think we have the answer to “everything”. We don’t.

As evidenced by people claiming the WHO are crap because they said there was no transmission human to human and it wasn’t a pandemic. They seem not to realise the unsaid word was “yet” and WHO’s information was based on what they knew at that time

@user1471530109

I thought they made it v obvious . I think we all knew the economy would win.

The economy has to win. How else do we fund the rest? It's paid for out of your and my tax payments.

Yes sit in the garden but it still isn’t a good idea to use the loo unless you can be sure people will clean everything they’ve touched. They should have made it clear that sharing food and drink still wasn’t advised.

I can’t believe he didn’t outline this. I’m no fan of Sturgeon but even she added this to her speech today.

Can someone explain to me what the risk is from loos if you wash your hands afterwards and wipe down the flush / any surfaces that you touch??

How else do we fund the rest?

Jesus. Are people really still asking how we will fund this? I don’t recall anyone ever saying we”d have to stop the falkland or Iraq wars because how would we pay for it.

If you don’t think government borrowing should be used to support a nation through the pandemic is an acceptable thing to do, you need to take a good hard look at yourself.

Boris actually looked really cross when Whitty added to the bbq comment.

He doesn't usually let his bluster slide.

@Bluntness100

This is difficult because ultimately they are medical/scientists so their focus is on that risk only.

Boris however has to look at a wider picture, he needs to look at the risk to people of staying locked down, now and in the future and balance it v what the medicine and science says.

The truth of the matter though is people have already ended lock down, let’s face it. Companies were already reopening,people going out. Not a lot of point in pretending otherwise.

I agree with this and at what cost to the economy and people’s mental health to continue the lockdown. I have an elderly relative in the early stages of dementia who cannot be assessed by the MH services and all the family are afraid they have lost them. I have a young adult DS furloughed who thinks he will lose his job. My hairdresser is a self employed single parent and living mainly on their overdraft. Luckily both myself and DH are key workers and have been working even harder than usual. I know I am lucky that I will be able to help my DS if made redundant and pay my hairdresser so that I can be prioritised once they can reopen. I want lockdown lifted as soon as possible to minimise the predicted recession and to get other health care services back up and running.

@onanotherday - maybe so, but it doesn’t make it a truth. Only what is known/agreed at the time. Around 2011, scientists announced “new” types of Breast cancer which changed how the disease was viewed. That’s less than 10 years ago. I’m not saying it’s not right and of course things change as we start to know more about diseases, genetics etc. But it is wrong to believe that “the science” doesn’t also contain a lot of guesswork and estimation which may or may not turn out to be true.

If you don’t think government borrowing should be used to support a nation through the pandemic is an acceptable thing to do, you need to take a good hard look at yourself

We are borrowing to get through it. An absolute fuckload. The point is that economic damage actually costs a lot of lives and there comes a tipping point where more lives are lost from that than would be lost from covid.

It appeared more that they are worried that the new relaxations are the maximum that is safe and that people are likely to take the piss rather than they didn't agree that the current proposals were safe, as well as frustrated by the questions from journalists that were trying to drag them into politics. Anyone relying on a political pressure group, which is all that the stupidly named independent sage is, for their scientific understanding of the situations seriously needs to have a good look at themselves.

We're not allowed to use loos in Scotland!

(Although I did have to use the loo when dropping stuff in to my mum the other week or else I'd probably have wet myself in the car on the way home)
She went up and bleached it and the sink before I went, and I bleached again when I was done. Used a separate towel which was put in the wash.

Completely agree, when he was doing the presentation he was saying phrases like 'these are not low figures'

@Muminho

Boris just can't help himself can he, such an amateur, so desperate to be liked. The bbq comment was completely unnecessary - and the way Chris Whitty jumped in to try to roll it back was very noticeable. On the rest I don't know. I mean Whitty/Vallance legitimised it by being there, so they must be reasonably comfortable with the approach.

I disagree that they were 'reasonably comfortable' with the approach. I think they made it abundantly clear they disagree with the 'easings'. I think they were there, to do what they - to try to mitigate any damage done by BORIS & his run-away mouth.

BBQ - fuckwit.

Does anyone remember whether a few weeks ago the advice was easing of lockdown should only start when the R number was around 0.5 or lower? I thought I recalled that? R rate currently still just below 1 and as Whitty said cases are still high.

The toilet thing: When you flush the toilet after you've been, tiny particles of what you've just done in there go into the air and land on various surfaces. Best to shut the lid of the toilet before flushing. Then give the toilet a good clean before anyone else uses it.

Jesus. Are people really still asking how we will fund this? I don’t recall anyone ever saying we”d have to stop the falkland or Iraq wars because how would we pay for it

Massive difference - we didn’t shut down the economy for three months during the the Falklands or Iraq wars. People still went to work, children went to school, dentists were open, hospital appointments went ahead, restaurants were open, people could still get married or buried etc etc. Jeez🙄

I certainly got that feeling.

I want lockdown lifted as soon as possible to minimise the predicted recession and to get other health care services back up and running.

@loadypoady, for economic considerations alone it should be remembered lifting lockdown completely too early a second wave may well happen which will be a drag on the economy.

If you eat food off a hot barbecue, and all use your own individual serving spoons to help yourself from a communal coleslaw or baked potatoes or salad, bring your own drink cans/bottle, it is hardly going to be more dangerous than any food we deliver to others, ie homemade cakes to nhs workers, shopping to vulnerable people/fruit and veg. It has all had human contact to varying degrees.
Hot food, even salad stuff is a safe thing to share, if you think about the serving method.
Ie no condiments passed round, no bottles of wine shared, bring your own glass and plates, hand towel.

The most reckless are likely to be younger, and less susceptible, older people with health conditions arent going to risk it, even when restrictions are eased like this.
Just because the govt says we can meet 2m.apart in a garden doesnt mean people will Want to, unless they feel safe/less vulnerable.
Ive got friends who still arent leaving the house apart from one short walk.a day or even Weekly, locally. I think they are over cautious, but there are plenty like them.
My teens desperately need to see friends and this is a good way to keep social distancing viable, or else the principles are going to be too onerous, and people will start sneaking into each others houses.