To avoid T or T by turning my phone off when out

[pontypridd]

Pissed off with hypocrisy of government.

I’m playing by the rules and still properly social distancing so there’s no way I’m self isolating for 2 weeks if they call me.

Can turning phones off when out avoid being radarred?

If they keep my name age address contact details so what how in these days of technology most of it is not a big secret
Many government agencies could find out these facts anyway app or no app

@ifIwerenotanandroid

I've seen mentioned on TV today, that you still have to isolate & stay in isolation if T&T says so, even if:

(a) You've already had Covid-19 (so much for herd immunity, then?)

(b) You isolate for a bit, do a test & it comes back negative

Can anyone explain why?

Also, who are the companies who are doing/training T&T and the app?

Can't help re the companies, but

a) there is no conclusive evidence to say that having the virus gives you immunity so you would need to isolate in case you had been re-infected.

b) A negative test only indicates that you did not have the virus at the time you were tested You could develop the virus (with or without symptoms) in the hour/day/week after you were tested.

In fact, even if you had a negative test on day 14, that doesn't mean that you haven't picked it up in the previous 24hours - maybe from another family member.

What do people want? I'd guess...

• testing during isolation (this was at one stage happening for keyworkers) so people can get back to work/life if they're negative, and to catch asymptomatic people. Not just blanket 14 days with no test.
• guaranteed income whilst isolating (the furlough scheme and self employed grant mechanisms have been built, so use them for this)
• enough information to determine whether requirement to isolate is reasonable (even giving a specific date would help as then people would have an idea if they'd been at risk or if they were home all day)
• income from govt for parents who have to take 2 weeks off because their child is self isolated
• regular testing for those in high risk environments for contact, rather than relying on t&t for them.
• option of antibody testing for someone told to self isolate who believes they have already had it to determine if they're actually at risk

option of antibody testing for someone told to self isolate who believes they have already had it to determine if they're actually at risk

They have said that this would be pointless as they don't know if you would be immune or how long for

That seems illogical- surely the presence of antibodies would suggest some remaining immunity? They said they don't know how long immunity lasts but I hadn't heard that someone with a current positive antibody test isn't currently immune

It’s all well and good saying they do it in South Korea but we need to know what employment protection people are getting there, what financial protection. Here, there’s nothing. Everyone is being left to fend for themselves. If I repeatedly took 2 weeks off to self isolate I’d be worse than useless to my employers and as they have to pay someone else to cover my absence long term I just wouldn’t be paid. Not sustainable.

I suspect you don’t get a choice in South Korea

@rosie1959

I suspect you don’t get a choice in South Korea

Do you mean North Korea?

No South

I won't be taking part in any of this. I'll be doing what I decide is best for me and my family.

I won't be taking part in any of this

Except of course if someone named you as a contact, you’re in the system whether you wanted to be or not.

And that’s the better case scenario. The worse one is that someone hands your personal info to a scammer because they just believe that a phone call comes from who the person says they are

I wanted to let people on this post know that during my cousin's work shift in a care home overnight it became apparent via phone calls that a colleague had ignored a request to isolate via the T&T system.

The colleague is 18, she admitted her error and was sent home. It seems she has been in a hot tub this week with friends, one of whom has had a positive test. Her parents told her it will all be fine and she carried on working- as did her mum in the local supermarket. Given her admission she will now loose her job.

My cousin is so upset especially as she manages a home where so far no one has tested positive. It's now not clear if other staff in the care home will need to isolate....

Just to add that both usually travel to work by bus but luckily her father gave both his daughter and wife a lift yesterday.

I don't remember what I had for breakfast most days, let alone who I spent time with , accurately and on which day

I've got menopause brain you know.

This is not quite the same as 'who did you shag?' question that is used for STD tracing. I know covid is more dangerous but I just can't see how this is going to work effectively without an app. And as I don't trust this shower with my data (I work in tech and on AI so know a bit) so I would not use an app unless the data control was absolutely water tight.

As ever this government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and they are killing us as a result. Fuckers.

@dancinfeet

Unless there is guarantee of financial help for the self employed if quarantined, I will not be giving permission for track and trace on my phone - I'll leave it at home when I go out, if necessary. I have business overheads that have to be paid regardless (premises rent), the government have not permitted businesses like mine to reopen (dance school) which means that I am earning a fat zero - my customers do not want online classes and will not pay for them. Once I am able to go back to work I will most likely be earning a fraction of what I did previously, due to likely restrictions on class sizes. This is not a personal affront to those who are shielded, I'm just not in a financial situation to manage with virtually no income (single parent) and without assistance we would be in a dire situation. Selfish yes, for putting my own family first but I'm not willing to lose my home / starve by staying home with no income. I'm not even sure if I would be entitled to SSP being self employed, but £90 a week is not going to pay the rent on my business premises. I would make an exception if myself or any member of my household was showing symptoms and stay home in this circumstance, but I cannot quarantine based on a 'what if' without financial assistance.

The consequences of this pandemic are dire for many many people for a variety of different reasons. Why do you think you and your family shouldn’t be impacted, and why are you entitled to put others at risk of death to avoid personal financial consequences that many others are having to suffer? Why are you different?

Why do you think you and your family shouldn’t be impacted, and why are you entitled to put others at risk of death to avoid personal financial consequences that many others are having to suffer? Why are you different

When push comes to shove, most will put themselves and their own first. Like it or not.
I think of it like a sinking ship, would you give your life for the person next to you so they get a seat on the life boat? I know I wouldn't.

If you were looking for a room in a homeless shelter, would you give the last bed to the next in line and you sleep on a park bench? I wouldn't take the bench, that's for sure.
When shit breaks down, we protect ourself first.
When people fear being homeless and hungry with no where to turn, they will protect themselves first, yes even during a pandemic.

I would like to know how this will work for people in professions that are at higher risk of malicious or mischievous contact reports - people like police, social workers, teachers etc. Will there be any enhanced checking that contact reports are genuine?

I'm going to be interested to see how it works in my workplace - emergency services, lots of people in a room, no PPE. We all spend more than 15 minutes a day together and the 2m distance has been impossible to enforce. If one person tests positive, our workforce will be decimated for two weeks. No idea what they'll do in that situation as its not a role you can hire agency staff for.

If people aren't going to have enough money to live on whilst self-isolating, at least some of them are going to be resistant to it. There's no point in pretending otherwise.

Exactly BlackberryCane - people are going to be making a decision between definite harm to their family (due to financial loss) vs potential harm to more distant people. Especially if certain people end up isolating multiple times and either not obviously getting it, or being asked to isolate again despite previous infection. If you're going to have little/no income and you're being asked to isolate for the third time...

OP - I think you are getting ‘contact tracing’ and the ‘track and trace app’ confused.
Contact tracing- You get a phone call via the contact tracing service. (So nothing to do with an app). This only applies if you have come into close contact with someone who has tested positive and they give your details. Again nothing to do with your phone. Close contact is:

• people you spend 15 minutes or more with at a distance of less than 2m
• people you have direct contact with - such as sexual partners, household members or people with whom you have had face-to-face conversations at a distance of less than 1m

So if you socially distance from everyone, no one will have a need to give your details.

The Track and trace app isn’t yet rolled out. But when / if it is, you get a notification via your phone that you have been in contact with someone who has tested positive (assuming you have uploaded your Bluetooth keys confirming where you have been). Not phone a call. If you are not happy with this, just don’t download it. No need to ‘turn phone off’. Just don’t download!

Personally, google prob has more information on you and your movements than what the app is looking for. So I wouldn’t have a problem downloading it. Personally I’d like to know. But that’s my choice. If you are worried, just don’t download!

And I'm not saying people can't take a moral view on that if they want to statisticallychallenged, but, well, it doesn't change the reality does it? In order to be able to work properly in a country where millions of people have nothing or nearly nothing in savings, a track and trace scheme would need to address this problem.