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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Sam Smith

196 replies

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 12:58

This may be old news but I have just come across it whilst reading another thread here and had a bit of a Google to find out about it.

Straight away, the headline - Sam Smith asks to be referred to as “they” instead of “he” after declaring themself as gender neutral.

Now I don't like the bloke for many reasons but isn't asking to be referred to as 'they' implying that there is more than one?

Yes I know this is a pointless thread but I'm curious.

OP posts:

Original poster

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 20:14

No I'm not asking for empathy at all. I meant I was allowed to empathise with people who do find themselves questioning who they are and their identity, which I have said previously, but then I was accused of being full of protection. It's ridiculous.

OP posts:

Iggi999 · 26/05/2020 20:15

Well yes, it plays into the idea that if someone calls me by a female profile that that relates to my gender. It doesn't, it relates to my sex. So why does SS have ones that relate to gender, or am I supposed to accept that if I am ok with being called she/her etc that I am therefore "cis gendered"? Sod that.

Original poster

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 20:21

@Iggi999

Is that because you don't want to be labelled?

OP posts:

MintyMabel · 26/05/2020 20:24

Well yes, if my friend asked me what my daughter had been up to that day, I wouldn't reply with, 'they drew a picture, or' they had fun playing in the garden today'.

Because that would be the correct usage and not at al relevant to the issue of whether you can use they or not to refer to a single person. It’s been explained dozens of times. You’re either persisting with the faux ignorance or are actually ignorant.

Original poster

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 20:33

That posts was a while ago and now I do understand that 'they' is a pronoun for someone who identifies as non binary.

OP posts:

Original poster

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 20:34

Not sure how that is persisting with faux ignorance or actually being ignorant. There we go with the name calling again.

OP posts:

Iggi999 · 26/05/2020 20:39

It would be an incorrect label OP as I don't accept that I have a gender identity. But I do accept being referred to by sex based pronouns. I feel like someone has changed the goal posts when I wasn't looking.

OhHolyJesus · 26/05/2020 20:55

To help with some background OP

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

I don't use preferred pronouns as for me it is compelled speech. Others might not be bothered but for me Sam Smith is one person so 'they' doesn't apply.

He's just trying to be special or woke, his video of him crying on the doorstep of his mansion at the beginning of lock down just made it clear I was right about him.

Messing about with language because it makes someone more comfortable is the doorway to the woke police. Look up purity spirals for more if interested.

If this and preferred pronouns come into my work I'll refuse and I'll be straight in to my boss and HR to explain why as they do not work well for women. It's not common practice as much as some would have you believe.

Clymene · 26/05/2020 20:57

Sorry - so if I don't like someone and they use neutral gender pronouns, I'm transphobic @Witchcraftandhokum?

What if I like someone, despite them using gender neutral pronouns?

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 26/05/2020 20:58

Very well said.

Sex-based pronouns belong to all of us and not just those who wish to use them instead to reflect their gender identity, if that differs from their biological sex. If they were intended to reflect socially-recognised gender identity, we would be using they (or have another special neutral one) for all babies, which they would keep for years until they chose to transfer to their chosen one - presumably never changing if they never felt strongly enough that they had a gender identity.

Original poster

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 21:14

@OhHolyJesus thanks for posting that. I had never considered it that way before. But it does make sense. Wasn't there a story of a male who identified as a woman not long who so he didn't have to go to a male prison? Something like that anyway so in that context the article is very very relevant. I can't believe it got deleted and the user banned. Why is it that people cannot express what they do and don't agree with? It's so wrong.

OP posts:

Original poster

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 21:17

@Iggi999, sorry for being a bit dense but I want to understand, so you are a female and identify as such because it is your sex and not your gender? Are you therefore classing yourself as non binary or are you suggesting that people don't need a gender as well as having a sex? Sorry if that doesn't make sense.

OP posts:

donquixotedelamancha · 26/05/2020 21:31

It's like a white person saying to a black person 'Oh, I get what it's like to be black'; it's so disrespectful and so dismissive of people's lives and experiences

I agree. That's just what a man saying they are a woman is like.

donquixotedelamancha · 26/05/2020 21:34

Are you therefore classing yourself as non binary or are you suggesting that people don't need a gender as well as having a sex?

I don't have a gender either. I don't think anyone has a gender.

Gender is just a word for the stereotypes we associate with each sex. To say someone has an objective gender which you can't see or measure, but is discrete, from their sex is silly.

Lordfrontpaw · 26/05/2020 21:36

It’s like describing your shopping by the type of shopping bag you use.

Deadringer · 26/05/2020 21:48

It's just fucking stupid. We use they when referring to two or more people, or to refer to a person who's sex we don't know.
That's not the case with Sam Smith, because we know he is male.

Iggi999 · 26/05/2020 22:04

Pumpkin, the second one.

ReallysmallAndfaraway · 26/05/2020 23:11

"It would be great if we had a gender neutral third person singular pronoun that didn't also coincide with the third person plural, maybe that will evolve."

There is. Ze is used, although it is uncommon.
As for which pronouns to use -I use whichever one the person requests. It is basic manners to do so, surely?

Original poster

pumpkinbump · 27/05/2020 00:07

Thank you @Iggi999.

OP posts:

BlackForestCake · 27/05/2020 02:02

As for which pronouns to use -I use whichever one the person requests. It is basic manners to do so, surely?

It's basic manners to not try to control other people and dictate what they can say.

hula008 · 27/05/2020 11:01

It's basic manners to not try to control other people and dictate what they can say.

What? So you wouldn't correct someone for calling you or another person by the wrong name? If someone called you by a nickname you didn't want to be called, or referred to each Spanish person they saw as José it would be bad manners to correct them?

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