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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Sam Smith

196 replies

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 12:58

This may be old news but I have just come across it whilst reading another thread here and had a bit of a Google to find out about it.

Straight away, the headline - Sam Smith asks to be referred to as “they” instead of “he” after declaring themself as gender neutral.

Now I don't like the bloke for many reasons but isn't asking to be referred to as 'they' implying that there is more than one?

Yes I know this is a pointless thread but I'm curious.

OP posts:
MumpsimusMaximus · 26/05/2020 16:29

It’s not that it’s confusing particularly.

It’s that it’s pretentious, attention seeking and stupid.

MumpsimusMaximus · 26/05/2020 16:33

Imagine I suddenly become convinced I was the queen.

I now insist you call me “Your majesty” or “ma’am”.

Not only that but if you ever speak about me to other people I insist you refer to me as “her majesty”.

If you don’t, the right thing for people to do will be to chide you for not respecting my wishes.

slashlover · 26/05/2020 16:34

I have a name which rhymes with another and I'm often called the wrong name, even by people who know it isn't my name. I really don't care. I know what my name is, if people are making a genuine mistake then fine, if they're doing it deliberately to piss me off for some reason it still doesn't bother me because the person saying it isn't worth getting worked up about.

But other people are upset. There are many posts on MN from people upset that they/their DC are called the wrong name.

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 16:38

@mumpsimusMaximus

I agree, especially in his case. It's one thing after another with him.

I don't doubt that there are people who genuinely don't feel like one gender or another and that must be confusing and rather scary for some to feel that way, the same way that people who think they need an arm or leg amputated be wit doesn't feel like theirs. But I think a lot of the time it is attention seeking.

OP posts:
pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 16:39

But other people are upset. There are many posts on MN from people upset that they/their DC are called the wrong name.

And that is fine. It's their prerogative to be upset or not by something.

OP posts:
alexdgr8 · 26/05/2020 16:42

this is not a recent coinage. rather surprised you have not come across it before. is english not your first language; then i could understand if you claim it's confusing. otherwise, no, it's disingenuous.
you are finding another thing to beat ss with /about.
ss has done you no wrong. so ignore, don't berate, it lowers you morally.

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 16:45

If it had been another celebrity who I actually like, I would have asked the same question. English is my first language which is probably why I found the use of 'they' confusing.

If that makes me immoral then I'm not sure what I can do about that.

OP posts:
Lordfrontpaw · 26/05/2020 17:17

Sam Smith like Prince, will revert once the novelty wears off and irritation set in. And for people saying ‘it’s disrespectful’ (and I know two wrongs don’t make a right) have seen him in his ‘girl’ dress up? Pretty disrespectful to women.

Lifeisgenerallyfun · 26/05/2020 17:20

Sam Smith is v annoying. His voice is shit and boring and he spends his entire life telling us how special he is. I find inserting the phrase “the very special twat” rather than using any pronoun is the most suitable way forward.

Eckhart · 26/05/2020 17:28

But I think a lot of the time it is attention seeking

How many of these people do you actually know? Or are you just guessing?

Pertella · 26/05/2020 17:36

Hmm... if I was the suspicious type (which I am to be fair) I would be questioning the timing of this thread off the back off the accusations being made that MN is a transphobic site.

We had a faux naive thread about Sam Smith last week that was fishing for screenshots, I hope this one isnt for the same reason.

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 17:37

I don't know many who have ever identified as non gender but a do know a few. Other than that it's just opinion. It seems to have exploded and I think younger people in general would have a tendency to go through it as a phase.

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 26/05/2020 17:40

donquixotedelamancha what do you mean

What I said. There have been various threads about the Sams Smith, they always get deleted. Doesn't matter whether you criticise his music or his behaviour, none of them last.

There are various celebrities who are Forbidden on here.

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 17:41

@Pertella um, not this one. Believe it or not (which most won't) I don't have a clue about the accusations or threads asking for screenshots. Screenshots of what exactly? I'm not transphobic.

As I keep saying, the original question was genuine. I don't know why people find that so hard to believe?

I know AIBU is known for being harsh and I've seen some pretty harsh comments during my time here aimed at posters who in my opinion have done nothing wrong. For the most part, I bite my tongue in order to avoid confrontation on here.

OP posts:
pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 17:42

@donquixotedelamancha why is this if you don't mind me asking?

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Eckhart · 26/05/2020 17:44

It could be that or it could be that now it's more recognised, more people are happy to admit it now.

I guess we'll have to wait a few years to see whether or not it turns out to be a real facet of society or not. But definitely best, while we don't know, to call all those potentially confused, younger people 'attention seeking'. That's best with anything new.

Or we could just get on with our own shit and let them get on with theirs, without judging them.

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 18:04

I'm not judging people, as I said, for people who genuinely experience this it must be quite scary. However there are some, like Sam Smith who I believe are not genuine.

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 26/05/2020 18:09

why is this if you don't mind me asking?

Nobody knows, but the assumption is that they are quick with the lawyers.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 26/05/2020 18:11

It would be great if we had a gender neutral third person singular pronoun that didn't also coincide with the third person plural, maybe that will evolve.

I’m sure I read about ‘hem’ a long time ago, used especially for this purpose.

Yes, ‘they’ is often used to refer to an individual, but it’s usually when the person’s sex isn’t known, saying ‘he or she’ is a bit long-winded and is obviously much more polite than using ‘it’ when referring to a person (although some people do exactly that with babies, especially when they’re not yet born, which I personally hate). It’s not meant to be a judgement of your identity, just an accepted way of referring to somebody rather than using their name several times in a sentence.

As for the ‘raising a baby gender neutral’, you don’t raise a baby to have a gender – gender (for those who care one way or the other about it) refers to their identity as they grow older, which is their choice to make and not yours. You might as well say that you’re not raising them to be a teacher or accountant, to be single or married, or to live in a flat or a semi-detached house. If you have a baby and call her Emily, it’s your job to raise her to be Emily - as to who and what Emily will be and become is up to Emily herself as she lives her life.

I’m not a particular fan of Boy George (don’t dislike him), but I think he has it right. He is a ‘he’ because he is a male person with a male body, but he lives his life and wears clothes and make-up somewhat differently from the way that most male people do – but that’s OK and entirely his choice, as he is living his life as George O’Dowd/Boy George and other males are living their own lives as John, Tim, Rob or whoever they happen to be.

I realise that not everybody will agree with me, but I think that insisting on a pronoun that doesn’t fit your biological sex is actually self-limiting and giving pronouns a lot more importance in your life than they actually merit as a mundane grammatical part of verbal communication and nothing else.

Eckhart · 26/05/2020 18:37

The Boy George way is the best way of challenging gender stereotypes. Some people want to challenge them. Others just don't want to be part of the whole thing of there being 'types' at all. I don't think it's about having it 'right'. There's as many versions of 'right' as there are people. A bit of respect is good both ways. So, you might ask for gender non-specific pronouns, and it would be good for people to respect that. But when people get it wrong (because it's difficult to change the way you use language), it would be good for people to be respectful of the fact that everyone makes mistakes, rather than having a tantrum. It's just basic 'everyone's different, nobody's hurting anybody, let's be respectful' stuff.

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 18:46

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll I completely agree with your post.

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Eckhart · 26/05/2020 18:50

for people who genuinely experience this it must be quite scary

You are full of projection. You've already said you don't know many people in this situation. You just keep guessing.

Witchcraftandhokum · 26/05/2020 18:51

pertella I've already reported this thread, but surprisingly it's still here.

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 18:59

Oh Ffs. I do apologise for asking a question, defending myself against being called names and being honest in my views. Sometimes nothing is ever good enough for some people.

It seems we can't have an opinion these days, definitely something worthy of reporting.

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Witchcraftandhokum · 26/05/2020 19:05

Even if you did (and I don't believe for one sexo D that you did) naively ask a question, this thread which is questioning someone'sgender fluidity has ended up in a pile-on disguised as innocence. It's horrendous.

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