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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Sam Smith

196 replies

pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 12:58

This may be old news but I have just come across it whilst reading another thread here and had a bit of a Google to find out about it.

Straight away, the headline - Sam Smith asks to be referred to as “they” instead of “he” after declaring themself as gender neutral.

Now I don't like the bloke for many reasons but isn't asking to be referred to as 'they' implying that there is more than one?

Yes I know this is a pointless thread but I'm curious.

OP posts:
Witchcraftandhokum · 26/05/2020 19:38

I have called you neither.

You have admitted that you are somewhat ignorant on the subject yet continue to defend your self.

Witchcraftandhokum · 26/05/2020 19:42

Oh give over Lillian not everyone who cares about trans rights hates women.

Original poster
pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 19:43

I didn't say you had, but others have. I'm defending myself on what I know to be correct, being called a liar and other names. When I get things wrong I've no problem admitting it, like the definition of transphobia. If anything I've been mocked for not knowing something that the rest of the whole world apparently has known for so long. But noone cares about that because I've been lying all along apparently.

OP posts:
Witchcraftandhokum · 26/05/2020 19:46

Either way pumpkim MNHQ have sided with you. Whilst a number of threads are deleted because they're "not in the spirit of the site" it would appear that threads which are unkind to trans people are very much in the spirit of mumsnet.

LillianBland · 26/05/2020 19:48

not everyone who cares about trans rights hates women.

not everyone who cares about women’s rights hates trans people.

Dreeple · 26/05/2020 19:48

I was at his gig.

It was shit.

Witchcraftandhokum · 26/05/2020 19:48

Lillian I completely agree!

Dreeple · 26/05/2020 19:50

He was still a bloke then, so he wasn’t a they.

LillianBland · 26/05/2020 19:50

it would appear that threads which are unkind to trans people are very much in the spirit of mumsnet.

Oh give over. Posters have already said, it has nothing to do with what SS identifies as, but just the fact that SS is an attention seeking whiner. Are you saying if we criticise someone and they identify as trans, then they’re untouchable? That’s very othering of you.

Original poster
pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 19:51

How is it unkind to trans people? I don't dislike Sam Smith for being trans, u don't dislike anyone for being trans, gay, straight or anything else. I do dislike him for other reasons not related to his gender or sexuality, which I haven't even listed on this thread because that wasn't the intention of the thread. If it had been my intention to start SS bashing thread, don't you think I would have?

Why can't people say if they like or dislike someone? Does being trans shield them from that?

OP posts:
Witchcraftandhokum · 26/05/2020 19:53

As I've said, many times, unkind things have been said on a thread questioning his right to gender fluidity. It's not like the original 'op' read "Sam Smith is a complete tool isn't he?"

Eckhart · 26/05/2020 19:53

But you are commenting and judging all the while, regarding things you don't know about. Sensitive things. Things that you have no right to judge.

For example, you have said more than once that you suspect for many young people that this will be a phase. Yet also, that it must be scary. You've also said you only know a few people in this position (I wonder how many that is? None?) so how could you possibly claim to have any idea at all what it feels like or how long it might last?

It's like a white person saying to a black person 'Oh, I get what it's like to be black'; it's so disrespectful and so dismissive of people's lives and experiences and you don't even know you're doing it, which is the most insidious sort of prejudice there is.

Witchcraftandhokum · 26/05/2020 19:55

So which is it then? A thread for basing Sam Smith or a thread questioning his gender fluidity? Because it's both and that's what makes it transphobia.

Eckhart · 26/05/2020 19:57

You didn't start the thread to say you didn't like Sam Smith. You started the thread to question Sam's choice of personal pronouns, and you've gone on to question gender fluidity as if you have a clue what you're talking about. Don't start making out now that all your comments have been about how you're not keen on his songs or how he treats his friends or something. Absolutely disingenuous.

LillianBland · 26/05/2020 19:58

It's like a white person saying to a black person 'Oh, I get what it's like to be black'; it's so disrespectful and so dismissive of people's lives and experiences and you don't even know you're doing it, which is the most insidious sort of prejudice there is.

I’m so biting my tongue right now!

Eckhart · 26/05/2020 19:59

Are you against the quoted comment or for it, Lillian, it's not clear?

Original poster
pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 20:01

I'm not judging transgender people at all. Am I not allowed to have 2 differing opinions on the same matter? Yes I do believe in my opinion that some people identify as non gender or non binary for attention. Yes I also believe that people genuinely identify this way, is it then so ridiculous of me to a assume that realising this must be hard and scary for them?

As far as saying I have no idea that people do it for attention, are you then also able to say that you know for a fact that people don't do it for attention?

I'm sure you have had experiences I know nothing about, and I have had experiences you know nothing about because neither of us has experienced exactly the same things. Does that the not allow me to have any opinion whatever on the matter or is it okay to have some empathy, even for things you may not fully understand?

OP posts:
LillianBland · 26/05/2020 20:02

I completely agree that you can’t claim to know how someone of a different colour, race, religion, sex, etc lives, if you’re not of that race, sex, etc. To claim such a thing would be nonsense and insulting to people of that lived experience. At least we agree on that.

RaveOnThisCrazyFeeling · 26/05/2020 20:03

I won't play along with the pronoun nonsense because to do so would be to buy into the sexist and backward idea that "male" and "female" are personality types rather than reproductive sex classes.

Which is ridiculous and offensive, no matter how much the naked emporer demands that you believe it.

Original poster
pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 20:03

Witch, I'm not questioning either. I was questioning the use of the word that appears to be used by many unbeknownst to me which i took to mean more than one in the context I today found it used in.

OP posts:
popehilarious · 26/05/2020 20:04

I still think SS is a prat for that time they claimed to be the first openly gay man (when they were a man) to win an Oscar. They did apologise later. Nothing to do with their gender identity.
BTW the non-binary person I know definitely doesn't want to seek attention for it.

Witchcraftandhokum · 26/05/2020 20:06

OK. My head hurts from the banging it off the wall. I'm off to change my union to the GMB and renew my audible subscription.

Lordfrontpaw · 26/05/2020 20:07

Why’s that then? Tackling the mickey a lot of Sam Smith isn’t against the law yet is it?

Original poster
pumpkinbump · 26/05/2020 20:08

So saying someone makes shit music, is attention seeking and not a ver nice person as many have said, people who have even met him is transphobic?

OP posts:
Eckhart · 26/05/2020 20:11

You are asking for empathy, OP? Wow.

Not even worth bothering with any more.

Swipe left for the next trending thread