To not let an abusive man have control over my child

[dublingirl653]

So we are due at court very soon

I moved to London for him
We got pregnant and literally from day 7 of pregnancy the abuse started
Got so bad
Left many times

Now he wants access - 50/50
After the most horrendous abouse against the kids and I

Aibu to say no right away
Or negotiate??

I believe you, OP.

Family Court varies according to each judge and each case. Many take the view that children need the best possible relationships with each parent.

Have you checked if you qualify for legal aid? If you only have £5K of assets, you may - depending on your income.

If you have strong evidence, and can keep it entirely focused on the best interests of the children, it will be better for you. Saying "I won't allow" won't change the fact that unfortunately it will be out of your hands.

You really need legal advice. Just to say that in addition to supervised contact, it can be ordered that contact happens "in the community" - in other words, unsupervised, but in public, not at his home.

You need to stop talking to these “friends” about it firstly - I’m not sure why they are telling you to be considerate or accommodating to an abuser and rapist.

I can’t offer any advise on the courts - lots of PPs will be able to though. But whatever you do, find support in people who support and believe in you. Make everything go through the court / solicitors. Don’t engage with him. If he wants some contact then he has to go to court, don’t enter into any conversation with him about it.

Has he been or can he be prosecuted for the rape? Is there an associated crime against the children as the rape was done in front of them?

So sorry to hear all you’ve been through. Horrendous.

As hard as it is, stay strong and stick to your instincts and gut feelings. You need to protect your little children and yourself from this brute. Have you contacted Refuge or Women’s Aid for help and advice? They will have experience in advising women in court.

Thinking of you. Xx

The thing the courts are hot on and f4justice advise to use is parental alienation. If the courts think you are guilty of this you are fucked. Google it and avoid doing it like the plague. You know what you know and think what you think but you must SAY the things they want to hear and ACT the way they want. Going in there saying 'he's violent and he's never going to see them' will guarantee he wins.

A high percentage of psychopaths win in family court because they know how to play the game. Go in as a victim or angry woman and you will be another casualty. Google psychopaths in family court. But the calmer you are the more batshit he will go. Especially if you can get in there first with 'concerns about his mental stability'. You want him to make mistakes. If you can press his buttons just before court without witnesses even better.

And I think it would be £30 well spent to join the fsthers4justice forum where they dish out advice to these men. Always good to know what to expect so you can pre empt it.

You dont have to be nice to him but you have to appear reasonable - the moment you start shouting you will endanger your case. He will lie and you will have to listen to him lying without interrupting. No eye rolling or facepulling either.

I would move abroad and never come back. Before any court order is in place. Start a new life for you and the kids.

First of all OP, you need to contact NCDV in the morning. They will get you a Non-Mol restraining order against him by end of week. This will cost you nothing. This will also enable you to access Legal Aid via the Domestic Abuse Gateway.

PLEASE PLEASE call NCDV. They are bloody amazing!

You HAVE to get a Non-Mol OP, it will back up your claims of abuse.

Also contact Women's Aid and they will give you amazing legal advice specifically tailored to women in your situation. They may even attend court with you

My understanding is that you would be eligible for legal aid because you have experienced domestic violence.
Others are correct, what matters is what is right for the children not what he did to you.
Be mindful that you do not want to present as having turned the children against him, or as trying to prevent their relationship. If you are concerned for their safety you need to document why. If he had threatened to kill you all, was this verbal or written (text). I would keep a diary of anything he says from now on. Insist on him texting to communicate so you have a written record.
Good luck.

Thank you all

Great advice

Yes he is claiming parental alienation and that I am an abuser as I sent messages telling him he was scum for what he did to us

50/50 I do.not agree to
I want him out of our lives forever

I will get dates now of all the incidents the children witnessed

We are still going through the police investigation

He emailed my GP to tell her I am crazy and I lied to police (who the hell does shit like this)

Ok he's a proper psychopath then. With not too much self control if he's emailing the gp. So don't give him any ammo! From now on send him texts like 'I've always believed fathers should be in children's lives no matter what, but after all the violence you've inflicted on them they are scared of you and want there to be someone else there so if nothing else let's work together to find a contact centre that's easy for us both to get to and gives us all time to breathe while you get help with your anger issues' and stuff like 'After having time to think I want to put my personal feelings About being raped by you and the serious physical harm you've caused us aside and focus on what's best for the kids. If you can get help and promise never to hurt them or me again it's honestly better that they have a dad than not. But you can't keep hitting them. Please get help with whatever is in you to cause it because it isn't normal'

I think most will advise contact through a solicitor but the original texts are sent so you need to also have it on record that you tried to reach out to him and settle this BEFORE court. Plus it's kind of proof. They will want you to do mediation and I think you should embrace that. Your official stance is that having no father is not ideal but he has to be the father they need, not the father that beats the shit out of them, and you.

You could run the non mol order at the same time, it's like a kind of insurance to pretend to all that you are trying to be reasonable and that the non mol order is something that will keep the CHILDREN safe too, and that you would be open to him having contact once he is no longer a danger to them as long as it's supervised.

I had a court case with a psycho ex biz partner and as I watch a lot of judge Judy (I'm not kidding) know very well that your physical behaviour in court is everything. You can make them look crazy in court if you are calm, polite, and truthful. 'If you tell the truth you don't need to have a good memory' and I did. And at the end of it the judge (who was a dick actually) said that he was satisfied that there was no intent to constructively dismiss him, that we were woefully lacking awareness of employment law (biz partner so never occurred to me) but no case to answer. He acted like a crazy person and he's a manipulative charming cunt.

In the end the court wasn't interested in what he had done (though I was able to make it clear it was lawful to vote him out) they only cared if I'd deliberately tried to get him out as an employee. You would be amazed how little they care about the wrongs done to you and the kids.

But you suggest mediation and if you're super reasonable about him being a dad once he's sorted his violence issues out (he won't, he can't) and LOOK like you are trying and LOOK like you are willing to be a big enough person to work with the system when it's SAFE for you all you have a much better chance.

Thank you !!

I am. Not open to mediation due to the abuse

We are not in contact with each other

Contact through courts and solicitor etc

But some of the other advice here is clearly expert level advice and all I can say is please, please, please follow it to the letter. Havendilemma, Rangoon snd others obviousky know what they are doing.

DO NOT ALLOW YOUR ANGER TO GET IN THE WAY. You and the kids clearly have a lot of healing to do and will need professional help, and a non mol order would also give you space to feel safe.

Be fucking careful though. Statistically this is a very risky time for you, all of you. Men like this can and do kill.

And I do hope you kept the 'prepare to be disbelieved' text! He is going to paint you as crazy so you need to be the opposite. I was able to get enough Valium from the doc to a) get the sleep I needed before key dates and b) be calm in court though in the end it was having the solicitor who knew his stuff there that calmed me down. That and judge Judy! Be calm. Stay reasonable. Suggest things that will go towards the 'goal' of an eventual safe relationship between them like him getting help and contact centres. Act like they are your children alone and he's getting nowhere near them and the system will fuck you. Act like you want them to have a dad but are just ultra worried and want there to be belt and braces measures taken to ensure their safety and his defence if 'she's a crazy bitch taking my kids away' crumbles.

A lot to take on board so big hugs. You're a great mum, you got out so . You must be in bits and terrified. But just put on the big girl pants for another few months and do as much reading up as you can along with excellent advice from the others here and one last push for the sake of your children. This is a good one too www.brunel.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/articles/Playing-the-Parental-Alienation-card-Abusive-parents-use-the-system-to-gain-access-to-children

You can do it. And sorry for the long posts - this stuff really affects me. I've never been hit and I just can't conceive how it must feel. It's so awful for you but as a practical businesswoman in cases like this I'm all about the winning. You can't let him play the system fathers 4 justice style and fuck you over. Women lose because they don't play the game the courts want them too. Don't give in. Xx

Thanks so much !!

So glad we are out and free

I am petrified of him
We all are

I think you at least have to APPEAR to be open to the mediation AT SOME POINT. I'm not saying straight away but you suggest it (with safeguards in place) and put the caveat in that it's alongside the non mol order and after he's had professional help. That is a box the system usually needs you to tick so you appear reasonable. Just think, you're all reasonable and he's in there kicking off. Result. He wants power and control and you're offering supervised visits 😁.

I believe he can also cross examine you in court and that's much much worse. You know your position but you never never never say that's your position. You will have to face him so get that Valium from the doc fgs. Careful because you don't want him to use that (mentally unstable). I went to mine (find another gp - go o poprivste if you have to for that one thing) and explained the situation, said I'd never done it before and didn't want much just may be enough to get some sleep and get through the key dates (I asked for 7 and I think he gave me 14)

Ask for a cbt referral and a cahms referral too maybe for your ptsd. The courts love adults who help themselves and do what they can within the system - who focus on themselves and their own situation. Who have stable homes for their children, acknowledge there is another parent, don't say anything to the kids against the parent. Who take responsibility for their own mental state and make it all about the kids.

Then fuck him. Up the arse. Hard. Sorry to be crude but you have to do it. Coldly, methodically, and completely. He's a fucking out of control nutter who is surprisingly willing to make major mistakes in public but has convinced himself he had the right to do what he wants. This is the type that represents themselves in court often (arrogance). The calmer you are the more crazy he gets. As my hilarious solicitor said about my ex biz partner 'he cray cray'. He's dangerous though so be careful. No gloating or goading or contact directly with him if you can help it.

Yes absolutely

In his eyes he has done not one thing wrong

I am in the wrong

When I stupidly tried to set up contact he attacked me again

Well if the kids are petrified getting them to a therapist who can testify to that will help. Sometimes the courts disregard that (unbelievably) so the legal team will help you push the right buttons for them to take it on board.

I only won my case because I had a company representing me who specialise in this. The guy told me he never lost a case. I am insured by them for any employment claim as long as I follow their advice to the letter. Never underestimate how good a good solicitor is.

Get as much work/money as you can while being a mum. You don't want to lose this for the sake of a few grand you could have made dog walking or doing some ironing or putting your skills on fiverr/peopleperhour or whatever. The legal aid one is by no means guaranteed so please have a backup plan.

My exh didn't get any contact with the dc 7+10 as they had witnessed too much of his aggression. Unfortunately the 3+4 year old got eow and s3 of the school holidays. More often than not he didn't show anyway.

See this scares me so much

They saw lots

How will the courts believe me

Fact finding hearings - these are full day hearings
Will do draw on my police statement
hV report? Social services? Etc

When I stupidly tried to set up contact he attacked me again

Fucking hell. You need a body camera, cctv, and a legal weapon, panic button etc etc. And go to the police again and get protection, there was a telly program very very recently on this - watch it. The cops were great but they have certain things they look for that make someone 'believable'. I'm distracting you from your first order of business which is to get that order. Report everything. Get proof of everything. Once the orders in place report every breach. One of the abusers was interviewed by the police and I swear he came across as so sincere and decent. 'I wouldn't do that, I'm not that guy' etc etc,

Obvious but gave you done Sarah's law (or us it Claire's law). He's bound to have previous.

OP your 5K will pay for a direct access barrister for the final hearing. You do not need a solicitor. You do need support and there are places you can get help.

Thank thank you all lovely people

He attacked me many times after we left
Went on to attack my family

We bent over to be kind and considerate
We were foolish

I am hoping 5k may be enough?? That's all I have or will have in around 3 months

Thankfully MET have body cam footage of my kids and I locked in the car hiding from. Him

They pulled up and he ran to tell them it was all fake and that I was pretending to be upset

You need evidence of all the times you reported him to the police. I contacted the officers in charge and got a short report from the police station briefly outlining what happened.

You need a non molestation order against this man also. Ex sat in court saying oh no I had no non molestation order made against me, I agreed not to go to my house out of the goodness of my non violent heart, despite there being a non molestation order in the evidence bundle to show the judge there was one (judge wasn’t impressed with the lie).

Have you got schools and GP’s who know what happened? Letters from all of them as evidence as to how the children have been affected.

In court be very clear what he did, you need to be graphic and ask for supervised contact at a contact centre only. Ask that he attend domestic violence intervention training. Repeat your afraid for the children and your lives.

Get yourself a very very good barrister if you’re in London there’s a really good judge who specialises in domestic violence cases, it took me several years before a judge with some common sense saw what was happening and immediately referred my children’s contact hearing to that judge instead.

Also speak to women’s aid and rights of women.

You need to get everyone and everything on side. And even then be prepared not to be believed and ripped apart by your ex’s barrister.

Keep all communication in writing and be very very reasonable but I would as a previous poster suggested spell out continuously the abuse you suffered but say inspite of you threatening to kill us after physically attacking our four year old we can move forward with child contact but you need help and the children need to be protected.

Be reasonable very reasonable and be prepared, you will be painted as a rabid bitch who is wildly angry for her ex leaving her even if it’s the opposite.

Sorry begoreiputonmymakeup I actually meant a barrister (mine was a solicitor who also played barrister - the juniors put the case together and he did the hearing).

Just imagine for a minute that the footage is ruled inadmissible. What else have you got? Pictures of visible injuries? What have your family got, proof wise? Did they file a report? You don't want this to look like a one off thing You need to show he's a clear and consistent danger I think. You just don't know what the judge will look at and if you've only one kind of proof and they don't accept that.....