That it’s women who are still locked down?

[Sadie789]

My DH goes back to work next week and rightly so, long overdue in my opinion.

However, I can’t go back to work as with two young DC we have no childcare and it’s not possible to do my job from home.

Under normal circumstances without childcare it wouldn’t really be an issue as there would be classes and clubs and play parks and soft plays and friends to meet up with, so a full weekly schedule out and about with things to do.

I can’t take them to the supermarket or round the shops either, no grandparents allowed etc.

As it stands none of these things are available nor are likely to be for a while, so for me my situation has not changed from the initial lockdown - stay at home, go out for exercise (weather permitting).

Meanwhile my DH and the Hs of my friends are all back at work out of the house living normal days. At the weekends the golf is back on so that’s a leisure option.

Many of my friends are also trying to work from home while looking after children, some also homeschooling older ones.

Women who don’t have children are also on the back foot as many of the professions which are traditionally female - hair and beauty, retail, hospitality - remain closed and will be for some time.

Meanwhile men are back in the workplace. When furlough ends it will be those who are able to present for work and give all their attention to their job who are preferred by employers. Recruitment will be skewed by this too. It’s the traditionally male industries that are able to return earlier- outdoor and manual work.

When it does return childcare is likely to be limited in hours and more expensive- Scotland has quietly dropped the 30 free hours from
August that were going to make it financially viable for me to work. Now it’s going to be a matter of me earning a couple of hundred pounds extra per month instead of nearly £1000 that was previously the case.

I am far from a feminist, but it feels like any equality women had gained is being seriously eroded by lockdown and the exit strategy that has deftly avoided any conversation around how women, especially with younger children, are getting the raw deal.

sorry you lost me at "I am far from a feminist"

What a stupid thing to say. If you don't care about my rights, why should I care about you

Since when did 'feminism' become a dirty word? You've been well and truly suckered and conditioned into the mainstream thinking OP and this shows in your career/ family life choices. Women in the 60s/70/80s fought for equality that hopefully some younger women are now reaping the benefits of. I despair at your attitude, I really do.

I think this is a very interesting post and don't really understand the hostile responses. The OP makes some very good points and her situation is likely to be replicated in many families.

I don't have kids but I'm working from home whilst DP is still going out to work to run his business (manufacturing, so permitted). Since lockdown I've been doing all the supermarket shops, all the cooking and all the cleaning just because I'm at home and he hasn't done any.

Yes, this is my own doing but it's surprised me how easily we've fallen into these roles.

I'm a mother and have been working from home since lockdown started. My dh has been on furlough but is likely to go back on 1st June - although his business is dependent on more non-essential shops re-opening. In the meantime, he's been doing all the housework, shopping and cooking.

Fwiw, I am a feminist - and so is my dh. We believe women and men are equal - but we both recognise structural inequalities that impact disproportionately on females, well beyond lockdown.

Myself and my DH do the same hours, in broadly the same job, we earn about the same (me slightly less due to mat leave), do the same amount of childcare. Our circumstances are about as equal as you can get.
However I'm pregnant, which makes me vulnerable. This means I am WFH and can't use childcare. Which makes my ability to do my job less and puts me in a more vulnerable position re earnings and future employment.
I suppose that's purely down to biology.
I think it would be interesting to know the sex split in the vulnerable/shielding category. Pregnancy will only affect women. Women live longer so must make up more of the elderly. Also more likely to have autoimmune diseases which often require immunosuppressants. Just a thought.
I suppose if your set up was less 'equal' in the first place lockdown may exacerbate this but I wouldn't begrudge anyone going back to work just because soft play etc is still closed.
Formal/informal carers and NHS staff predominantly female too. Domestic violence victims also. Primary parents also I would guess? So yes affected in more ways. Wonder what the male:female ratio of job loss would be, I've read it's more likely to impact the young but not sure if predominantly female professions are likely to be worse hit.

YABVVVVU to be far from a feminist. What do you think a feminist is? Do we walk around holding our husband's testicles in a vise?
Welcome to the patriarchy - your observations are all correct and I agree that women are disproportionately affected by the lockdown.

And I see the posters posting saying it's got nothing to do with being a woman (but, I'm childfree at the moment and this won't affect me once I have kids), and to them I say most of my mum friends earn high six figure salaries and becoming a mum has massively affected them.. so you're likely to be in for a wee shock when you actually have kids.

I'm far from a feminist

It's just a common mistake. So many self-proclaimed "feminists" on MN (and in the real world) are just very bitter men-hater who abuse anyone who doesn't obey their strict and narrow view of the world, the ones who have been so vile and abusive towards SAHM on this forum - do not pretend you have not read the many times SAHM are being accused of being mere prostitutes!

They are not feminists, they are against women having a choice. It's the opposite of feminism. Plus they have very bad issues and we should pity them.

So fair enough to want to separate yourself from these hysterical harpies, but it doesn't mean you are not a feminist. Again, they are not feminists despite their claims.

I don't have kids but I'm working from home whilst DP is still going out to work to run his business (manufacturing, so permitted). Since lockdown I've been doing all the supermarket shops, all the cooking and all the cleaning just because I'm at home and he hasn't done any.

Yes, this is my own doing but it's surprised me how easily we've fallen into these roles.

the reverse is true for all the female doctors, nurses, teachers who are physically going to schools, supermarket workers, and all these key workers who are mothers but who didn't put their own kids to school because their partner was the one wfh.

Actually, I would have said there were more women working throughout lockdown due to them being more likely to be in care professions eg nursing/teaching etc. Many men working in more manual roles were/are still furloughed.

I agree with others that it’s more your personal family circumstances that are influencing your DHs return to work, not some anti-women agenda.

As an aside, if feminism was only about wanting equal rights then more people would identify as feminists. If you take a quick spin over to the feminist board you’ll see that quite a few feminists don’t think that is all it’s about and many of us don’t want to be tarred with the same brush as, shall we say, the more extreme feminists.

Forgive me if I’m wrong but don’t lots of women choose not to go back to work FT after children because they want to be at home with their children/go on outings, etc?

I don’t have children yet but if we do I think I’d probably like to drop a day or too at work and spend more time with them. If my DH said he’d like to go part time instead so he could do things like that I’d probably feel a bit miffed!

< misses point of thread >

*two

OP you are correct.

Of course there are (many) families where this is not the case and your choices have contributed to the position you are now in.

But there is a structural/societal influence which means that on a population level men earn more than women and women take on more caring responsibility for children. And the closure of retail/beauty/leisure industries - other than golf, which of course women can play but do so in smaller numbers than men do - does mean more women unable to work.

This IS a feminist issue and those feminists saying that it's not because they don't have the same circumstances are doing an awful lot of women a terrible disservice.

By all means encourage women not to dial back their careers or choose low paid ones (though what we would do without nurses and carers I don't know) and not to procreate with men who won't pull their weight with their kids. But don't throw women who have already made different choices under a bus to make your point.

I don’t care about white male privilege or growing my armpit hair or being the top bitch in the boardroom.

But having not ever given it much real thought

it has been over lockdown that I have noticed more starkly that there are different pathways and expectations for men (particularly from an employer point of view)

Do you honestly not see how the behaviours in the first two points support and reinforce the situation described in the third part?

OP I agree with you on the work front (and as I say that as the breadwinner and my DH went Part-time for a period). Women will be disproportionately impacted by this crisis.

It highlights there is a real problem in this county with women earning less (after children) and a culture they go part time when their children are young - rather then husbands/both doing 4 days per week. Unfortunately, this crisis will just set this problem back further.

Although my advice would be if you can hold onto your career/financial independence do it. Even if it effectively costs you more at the moment (emergency childcare). Can your DH do 1-2 days a week at home so you can work? Can you work evenings/weekends (or can they so you can work in the day)? I’ve seen too many women give up careers and then be in financial straits when a marriage breakdowns. Even if you stay together, the economy is likely to be volatile now. If you both have jobs then if one is made redundant it won’t be as bad.

Round me I can think of several families where the wife cannot WFH (NHS, vet surgery etc) but the husband (in IT) is and is picking up the childcare. Able to work late as a lot is USA based customers in a couple of cases.

Forgive me if I’m wrong but don’t lots of women choose not to go back to work FT after children because they want to be at home with their children/go on outings, etc?

Fathers enjoy those things two. But the reality is the woman is assumed by society and employers to be the default carer, the responsible parent and also to be the person paying for childcare.

Men consequently are excused many of these responsibilities because "they earn more" - its a catch 22. If men are free to pursue careers untramelled by childcare logistics of course they will do better.

The biggest risk in life most women take is compromising their capacity to earn and provide for themselves on the basis that prioritising a partner's earning capacity will give them a share in the financial security.

But the reality is the woman is assumed by society and employers to be the default carer

Or it might be because women, in general, have a tendency towards wanting to be the primary carer for their children? It’s not always about societal expectations, sometimes it’s just biology.

Anything can be turned into a feminist issue if that's the way you look at the world. But the truth is majority of us know and plan this before having kids surely?! So why turn it into something it's now?

Couldn't agree with you more OP. I'm a single parent, and the DC's dad has just carried on as normal. He's refusing to have the kids for any longer, despite me having had to pretty much stop working due to the absence of school and childcare. He claims it's impossible because of work, but I used to do the same job as him, and know that's bollocks. We've just had a colossal fight because I forced him to have the kids for Bank Holiday Monday- when he isn't working- so I can actually do some work.

School has no idea when it's opening for Reception kids- because, basically, it's a small rural school with a large proportion of SAHMs, so they rely heavily on the assumption that every child has a parent (read mum) at home during the day- or, in this case, for months on end .

Dh works in STEM. The company are primarily male, however guess who got furloughed first...yep all 3 women because of their childcare responsibilities. It wasn't discussed with them anymore than dh being free to work from home because I was around to look after our kids was with him, it was assumed.

Yes, choices play a part. I chose the lower paid path to dh as a direct result of being raped. He has earned vastly more money but I got vastly more job satisfaction. However those choices have already been made. Looking at my friends in particular, high earning partners & husbands who work away for weeks at a time, most are panicking about their jobs especially those who work in male dominated industries.

You've made such a valid point which has been ruined by your feminist comment. Why should people be ashamed to align themselves with feminist ideals, particularly on a forum dominated mostly by women?

IMO regarding people who are couples then, whomever earns the most should be the one trying to get back to work if possible, and the other one however possible. I guess that could mean less hours if appropriate childcare can't be found. It's an impossible situation which is out of our control. Things will go back to normal.

You can make child care as equal as you want in your own household it's down to you .
A few friends the female earns more so partner works less and does household and child care .
It's about who has the better job not what sex you are.

I totally agree with this, and will add it shouldn't be about who earns more.
We went for the lower income and it happened to be dh. His career was more important to him than mine was to me. It's about compromise on both parts, maybe at different stages in your life.
If you want to work, make sure you oh is on the same page and cutting hours to suit your job.
Don't moan about inequality, demand equality from your own spouse.

@twilightermummy Completely agree with your first comment. I was totally with you, OP, until you made that dumb remark about not being a feminist, and then reinforcing it with a misogynistic perspective of what a feminist is. If you want equality between the sexes then, hola, you're a feminist.

Aside from that, you're right. It would probably suit lots of people if women were forced to remain at home. Margaret Atwood territory. We need to be careful our rights aren't pinched from under our noses.

Me and DH currently both do a mix of WFH and time off for home education. DH does earn a bit more (a few years ago it was the other way around), but we choose to split family commitments 50/50 because we're a team.
So things don't have to be as unbalanced as you describe.

However, I understand a lot of people are a bit "locked down" in their own heads (i.e. unwilling to challenge their or other's preconceptions re: gender roles and work patterns), which means that a lot of mothers indeed will be stuck at home with the kids while their partner is out and about (if you ask me, that doesn't sound too different from the pre-covid norm of early motherhood, and it does suck indeed, but that's nothing new. There's a reason post-natal depression is so common)

Or could it also be that both men and woman assume if there is an age gap between a couple, it will be the man that is older, even if only by 1-2 years. That's enough that 2 people with similar education and career paths will be earning different amounts by late 20s, when many couples start looking to have DCs.

Add in the fact that study after study shows that a child with a SAHP or one dedicated carer does better, and for families that can't afford 1-1 childcare of a nanny often make the choice one parent will go part time. And logically it's the lower earner. And that just happens to be the woman.

Throw 2-3 years of part time vs full time work, or even being at home full time, and that small wage gap due to age gap is growing.

We had this, and up until March, wasn't a big deal. DH earns a lot more than me, but all work is equally valid and equally important in our household.

And then suddenly we're faced with no childcare options, no school, no childminders, no family help. A nanny would cost more than I earn. If someone has to quit or take extended unpaid leave, who shall it be, the higher or lower earner? Pretty obvious isn't it? Logical.

Not a 'feminist issue' - just families making logical choices. The feminist issues are those that lead to the point when the crunch comes, in the bulk of households feeling that crunch, it's the woman who is the lower earner, the wage the family can cope without if they have to lose one.

(Read a thing recently about when they were testing the dating app for the Guardian, woman generally put an age range of 2-3 years younger than them to 5 years older - some more, some less. All men tested - all of them - put from 18 to their own age, not one considered a woman even 1 year older than them as a suitable match. Other dating sites have said it's similar, men rarely are prepared to consider woman older than them, even by a little bit, although most are prepared to accept a significantly younger age group. This isn't a coincidence that few woman are the oldest in their relationship and therefore more likely to be higher earner at the point the couple start a family.)