That it’s women who are still locked down?

[Sadie789]

My DH goes back to work next week and rightly so, long overdue in my opinion.

However, I can’t go back to work as with two young DC we have no childcare and it’s not possible to do my job from home.

Under normal circumstances without childcare it wouldn’t really be an issue as there would be classes and clubs and play parks and soft plays and friends to meet up with, so a full weekly schedule out and about with things to do.

I can’t take them to the supermarket or round the shops either, no grandparents allowed etc.

As it stands none of these things are available nor are likely to be for a while, so for me my situation has not changed from the initial lockdown - stay at home, go out for exercise (weather permitting).

Meanwhile my DH and the Hs of my friends are all back at work out of the house living normal days. At the weekends the golf is back on so that’s a leisure option.

Many of my friends are also trying to work from home while looking after children, some also homeschooling older ones.

Women who don’t have children are also on the back foot as many of the professions which are traditionally female - hair and beauty, retail, hospitality - remain closed and will be for some time.

Meanwhile men are back in the workplace. When furlough ends it will be those who are able to present for work and give all their attention to their job who are preferred by employers. Recruitment will be skewed by this too. It’s the traditionally male industries that are able to return earlier- outdoor and manual work.

When it does return childcare is likely to be limited in hours and more expensive- Scotland has quietly dropped the 30 free hours from
August that were going to make it financially viable for me to work. Now it’s going to be a matter of me earning a couple of hundred pounds extra per month instead of nearly £1000 that was previously the case.

I am far from a feminist, but it feels like any equality women had gained is being seriously eroded by lockdown and the exit strategy that has deftly avoided any conversation around how women, especially with younger children, are getting the raw deal.

Yes, 'unpaid' work is women's work. Obviously.

I find it interesting that the responsibilities are always portrayed as the womans, even if the man doesn't do his share, that's her fault for choosing badly

You're confusing whose fault it is with who can make the woman happier. If someone is lazy, it's their fault, because they are responsible for themselves. By the same token, if someone is unhappy in their relationship, they are responsible for themselves, and so they need to find a way to be happier.

Unless you advocate trying to change your partner to suit your needs, that leaves women (in this instance) with the responsibility for leaving their lazy partners, and finding happiness elsewhere.

Unless you advocate trying to change your partner to suit your needs, that leaves women (in this instance) with the responsibility for leaving their lazy partners, and finding happiness elsewhere.

Yes they should.

Yanbu it is shit. I've worked pt for years.
Parents in the UK rely heavily on the after school clubs etc.
I don't think an unequal partner is a heterosexual issue only I think it is across the board.
For couples equality is important but from what I can see it is rare in lots of relationships.

Unless you advocate trying to change your partner to suit your needs, that leaves women (in this instance) with the responsibility for leaving their lazy partners, and finding happiness elsewhere.

Ok, so men can't be expected to pull their weight, but simultaneously women need to find the hens teeth of men that can?

Sure, women can leave their lazy partners. My friend just chucked hers out as he showed his true colours as a lazy slob after their baby was born (his first her 3rd). He acted like an absolute prince before the baby, couldn't do enough for her, and she's not Mystic Meg, sadly. Now shes on her own with the children, trying to work and do everything. He now has to rent somewhere else so child support is minimal. He wants the baby on Sundays, and a couple of days after work, but he won't reduce his hours to help with childcare while she works.
So she can "find happiness" in that she's not cleaning up after a manchild, but she is still left with all the shit.

Ok, so men can't be expected to pull their weight, but simultaneously women need to find the hens teeth of men that can

I expect that if an entire generation of men get left to fend for themselves, they might change their default behaviours. But we're unlikely to find out, whilst women keep settling. Yes, it's unfortunate to be part of that generation, but it's unfortunate to have to throw yourself under the kings horse, too. Some people throw themselves under horses to instigate change, some settle for less than they're happy with, and complain.

@HepzibahGreen Has your friend been to CAB to get advice on what to do regarding her situation? What did they tell her? Her ex sounds shit.

Institute of Fiscal Affairs has found mothers getting the shitty end of the stick wot a shocker

Sure what would they know?

It's all women's fault anyway.

Why choose the shitty end of the stick?

It's so easy to choose the other end.

It's only because women are so stupid that they don't.

Not quite sure what your gender has to do with it. Lowest earner looks after kids to allow higher earner to work.

@Kazplus2 - yep. It just happens to be in the majority of UK households with children where both parents work, the lower earner is the woman. Is it just great big massive coincidence and we shouldn't question if there's something structural at society level that's caused this?

There are some families where the man is the lower earner. There are some where the woman is the lower earner, but in this crisis, her role is seen as more important (eg medical professional), but these are the minority.

The sex/gender effect kicked in years before which is why woman are more likely to be the lower earner (even if they work similar hours).

Lockdown issues have just highlighted it.

There's no easy answer, but refusing to see the problem doesn't help change it for the next generation.

disgruntled - sorry if this has already been said as i'm working and dropped off this chain. But arent a lot of women lower paid because they have decided they want to spend more time with their kids, and have therefore declined promotion/extra working hours/moving companies for lower risk/work effort. Or they have taken long career breaks, again because they wanted to spend time with kids whilst they were growing up. That certainly appeared to be the case with a lot of mums i used to stand with outside schools waiting for to drop kids off. You cant have it both ways surely - less effort doesnt = more money normally?

It just happens to be in the majority of UK households with children where both parents work, the lower earner is the woman. Is it just great big massive coincidence and we shouldn't question if there's something structural at society level that's caused this?

Precisely.

Women are pushed in so many ways into putting their career second. The family responsibilities fall disproportionately on them ... so they end up taking less demanding, part time, less well paid jobs so that they can keep up with those family responsibilities ... and from there it’s a slippery slope as their job is always deemed less important. So whenever there is a crunch point it’s hers that is sacrificed not his.

The underlying question is, why do family responsibilities end up falling disproportionately on women? Is it “nature”- men are incapable of remembering school uniform, bedtime routine etc? Is it social conditioning - women are conditioned to think they must prioritise children, men are conditioned to think they must prioritise work? Are the type of jobs that women prefer less well paid even if they are just as demanding, and if so why?

**The underlying question is, why do family responsibilities end up falling disproportionately on women? Is it “nature”- men are incapable of remembering school uniform, bedtime routine etc? Is it social conditioning - women are conditioned to think they must prioritise children, men are conditioned to think they must prioritise work? Are the type of jobs that women prefer less well paid even if they are just as demanding, and if so why?

Yes conditioning of both men and women. Perhaps also women’s lack of trust in their partner’s ability to look after children? As well as male reluctance due to lack of confidence to manage a household /no male role model having done so? There are a numerous factors. At the end of the day, men and women both need to believe in equal rights and opportunity for both genders. It’s a gradual change but it’s starting to happen in some areas of society. Men and women should stop seeing feminism as a dirty word and understand that it’s key getting the genders on a more level playing field. As in OP’s case (and many other people’s), they just don’t understand what the word means.

in my experience of the women i know locally its because they dont want demanding, stressful jobs that have long hours with lots of travel. They would prefer to spend time with their children. Its nothing to do with being pushed into low paid jobs - they would be annoyed and disappointed if they had to do more professional demanding jobs. They are happy for their husbands to take on that role.....or at least till their kids are older and then they find they are probably left behind in the workplace unless they are really talented