That it’s women who are still locked down?

[Sadie789]

My DH goes back to work next week and rightly so, long overdue in my opinion.

However, I can’t go back to work as with two young DC we have no childcare and it’s not possible to do my job from home.

Under normal circumstances without childcare it wouldn’t really be an issue as there would be classes and clubs and play parks and soft plays and friends to meet up with, so a full weekly schedule out and about with things to do.

I can’t take them to the supermarket or round the shops either, no grandparents allowed etc.

As it stands none of these things are available nor are likely to be for a while, so for me my situation has not changed from the initial lockdown - stay at home, go out for exercise (weather permitting).

Meanwhile my DH and the Hs of my friends are all back at work out of the house living normal days. At the weekends the golf is back on so that’s a leisure option.

Many of my friends are also trying to work from home while looking after children, some also homeschooling older ones.

Women who don’t have children are also on the back foot as many of the professions which are traditionally female - hair and beauty, retail, hospitality - remain closed and will be for some time.

Meanwhile men are back in the workplace. When furlough ends it will be those who are able to present for work and give all their attention to their job who are preferred by employers. Recruitment will be skewed by this too. It’s the traditionally male industries that are able to return earlier- outdoor and manual work.

When it does return childcare is likely to be limited in hours and more expensive- Scotland has quietly dropped the 30 free hours from
August that were going to make it financially viable for me to work. Now it’s going to be a matter of me earning a couple of hundred pounds extra per month instead of nearly £1000 that was previously the case.

I am far from a feminist, but it feels like any equality women had gained is being seriously eroded by lockdown and the exit strategy that has deftly avoided any conversation around how women, especially with younger children, are getting the raw deal.

With hindsight I should have been a vet

And you could have been, and this is why you're pissed off now. Not because that option wasn't there for you, but because you chose something else. You chose the societal norm that you so loathe.

I should have been a brain surgeon and an astronaut, but I didn't try hard enough either.

I cannot, and will not, accept that the gender pay gap is due to women 'not trying hard' enough.
Look at non academic career pathways. My friend is a bricklayer, he has no GCSE's. He earned 40k last year. I could try to become a bricklayer, but as you are paid by brick there is no way I could earn as much as my six foot, 18 stone male friend.
Non academic females are doomed to earn minimum wage. Non academic men are invited onto building sites with their dads/ uncles older brothers. They get welcomed with open arms. It is very hard to make it as a woman in that world. I'd love to hear it from a woman who has!

@Eckhart you are deliberately missing the point that all of this is in the context of lockdown.

I was perfectly happy with the arrangement we had before.

Bouji Your argument is that men are bigger?

I know a female plumber, another woman who, in her 50s, is training to be a plumber (because she was inspired by the same female plumber!), a female builder, a female kitchen fitter. I did know a female bricklayer but we lost touch so I'm not sure if she's still doing that.

There are some quite small men who work on building sites.

How many of these non academic, doomed females that you know have actually applied for bricklaying jobs? Or do they choose not to?

@BoujiSnail exactly.

@Eckhart no, again, as you’re not reading or simply ignoring the information I am presenting, I chose a professional career in a completely different area which is a traditionally male dominated sector and used to have decent salaries. Not sure where you get this idea that I chose some sort of shit dead end job because I’m just a lowly woman who didn’t have enough confidence to aspire to more in life. You’re making that part up to suit your argument.

You cannot choose to earn the big bucks because if you could we all would
Maybe not. But you can choose careers where you are more or less likely to get a decent salary. And many women choose to ignore the salary element when choosing a career.
And you can choose to sabotage your salary by taking extended maternity leave, not going back (because you wouldn’t want to miss the magic toddler years), going back very part time (60% or less while the husband works fulltime) etc.
It is an absolutely reasonable life choice to do all that, but there is a price to pay: you loose your independence. Jus5 as there is a price to pay to not do this.
But wanting extended time off and a career means that career is either going to happen later, or not at all.

Not because that option wasn't there for you, but because you chose something else. You chose the societal norm that you so loathe.
Oh stop that. op ignore it. Women don't make choices in a vacuum. Typically male professions pay more, there is a gendered philosophy that women are biologically better attuned to children and children need their mums. Plus mums need time off
after giving birth to recover. Someone has to look after children, given all those factors it is more often mothers who prioritise children over careers FOR TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE REASONS.

The pandemic is showing just what children entail to society, the default is always "well, shouldn't have children if you don't want to look after them" and it is women that suffer.

YADNBU OP and it's going to get worse the longer schools and nurseries are closed.

PS can I recommend a read of "invisible women" by Caroline Criado-Perez, she talks a lot about the invisibility of childcare as work and the effect on women

A few exceptions that prove the rule, here.

They are notable precisely because they are exceptions.

Non academic females are doomed to earn minimum wage absolute nonsense - and the reason so many women do indeed earn minimum wage. Why try?
I know several non academic women earning very well. Some in more traditional female manual jobs ( 2 independent seamstresses), some not ( electricans don’t need much brute strength for example). BTw, some of the physically most demanding jobs are traditionally female (carers etc).

@yurona

I went back full time to my decent salaried professional job I had worked in for nearly 20 years before having children after 9 months mat leave (and only because I could only get a nursery place at 9 months because local services are over subscribed).

I don’t want extended time off. I want to go back to my normal life which I am being prevented from doing because childcare in all forms except the magical unicorn lockdown nanny has been withdrawn. My H on the other hand is going back to his normal life.

How can you say you're "far from a feminist" when you're acknowledging this unfairness? This is exactly what feminism is to me, fighting to bridge this unfair gap between the sexes.

I think lockdown has been harder on women full stop when you take into account reports that women are doing the lions share of housework, childcare and home scchooling (according to media but also from personal accounts of my friends), plus the increase in domestic violence, but that's a whole other (bleak) thread!

Not sure where you get this idea that I chose some sort of shit dead end job because I’m just a lowly woman who didn’t have enough confidence to aspire to more in life

I never said this. You're telling me I'm not listening whilst putting full on stories into my mouth with swearing and everything.

Almost like a chip on your shoulder, although god knows why considering how happy you are with everything, which is clear from your OP.

@Eckhart I didn't say that women couldn't be plumbers, sparkys, gas fitters or mechanics. I said bricklayer because I know that there is a certain physical profile which fits that role. Like I said, I could have a bash but I would never be able to earn as much as a large set man. Just in the same way that those same men would make terrible dental nurses, unless they were blessed with tiny fingers!
My issue is that society judges one job as being a 40k one, and one as minimum wage. Neither involve further education past college, nor business acumen, yet the wages are so disparately different.

@Margerine78 yes I agree, not forgetting the majority of care givers in both medical and other settings are women too.

I still don’t want to label myself a feminist.

@Eckhart well, yes, you did say that...

And you could have been, and this is why you're pissed off now. Not because that option wasn't there for you, but because you chose something else. You chose the societal norm that you so loathe.

Marg

Because feminists have hairy armpits and are not allowed to wear makeup.

And they hate men.

Your natural talents and abilities. I’d love to be a pop star but I can’t fucking sing so I’m on to plums with that one. That's funny, I always say I want to be a Premiership footballer, I'm too old, can't kick (or catch) a ball and all i know about football is the premiership players earn lots of money. Funnily enough I think it is a pipe dream.

I left school at 15, never passed an exam. I was earning £100k when I retired a few years ago, I could have earned more but was somewhat limited bringing up 4 kids and looking after a disabled husband. On the other hand the 4 kids and disabled husband gave me the motivation to earn £100k.

None of us know what life is going to throw at us, when we had 4 kids we had no idea my husband had a genetic condition that was going to mean living in pain everyday for the last 35 years, when I left school with no ambition at 15 I had no idea I was going to have to step up and be the breadwinner. There's no point regretting our choices in life, live life looking forward not backwards, it just gives you a sort neck. Life will get back to normal, yes there will be a slump but some people will use that to make changes, take a new course and make a fortune, some will sit and dwell on how unfair it all is. We all have to make choices.

@QuintinWinters

My point is that women need to ignore the expectations,and do things that do not fit the social norms, if they want to. Rather than blaming this terrible sexist society we live in.

There is training available, there are jobs available. There are many women in high status and high paid roles, some with children, some not. They prove that it's perfectly possible. Daughters need the example, from their mothers, that you go out and get the life you want. They do not need the example from their mothers of 'Oh no, society is so sexist, women are hard done to, once again, woe is us'

Lockdown may be rough for some women right now due to childcare issues. It's also difficult for the men and the children, sometimes for the same reasons, sometimes for others.

It's hard for, say, gym-goers, too, because all the gyms are shut, but nobody's whinging that there's a prejudice against gym goers.

OP is actively looking for sexism, looking to complain, looking to be a victim, rather than just getting on with the way that lockdown is affecting her individual life, and making sure that sexism isn't a feature of her family life/career on an ongoing basis.

Because feminists have hairy armpits and are not allowed to wear makeup. That's where I went wrong, I always thought it was an advantage in life having no underarm hair and now I find it limited my choices! Not to mention being to bloody lazy to wear make up, well I do wear mascara because like many red heads you can't see my eyelashes.

You chose the societal norm that you so loathe

ie the one where the woman earns less than the man and is the default care option, the result of which is your hellish lockdown situation, about which you were complaining in the first place.

Your interpretation I chose some sort of shit dead end job because I’m just a lowly woman who didn’t have enough confidence to aspire to more in life is balderdash, and, as I said, putting words right into my mouth.

not rf yet, but YADNBU On a general level women think about what affects their kids more than men do ( based on everything I see around me) they take more flexible lower paid work because that's all that fits round the kids.
Married men don't usually factor in child rearing when choosing jobs. You are right, builders back to work, hairdressers still off. And so many stories from middle class WFH women who realised that when hubby is WFH he doesn't expect to be doing childcare or homeschool.
Women are always expected to be the adults and to take care of everything at home.
People will say that women choose all.this but if we care about the wellbeing if our children we are often set up to fail.
Personally I am going to be earning full time and getting my ex in to help, but I will still take the brunt of homeschooling, housework and the rest because if I didn't it just wouldn't get done.
So, yeah, women are getting shafted at every turn.

@BoujiSnail
There's a reason you went with a brick-layer than, say, a binman (I've literally never seen a binwoman). It's called cherry-picking.

There are profiles for certain jobs. Most men will be better suited than most women for most forms of physical labour. Most people are more comfortable trusting roles in caring professions to a women than men.

Most jobs these days exist outside of that paradigm. The most important physical skill is being able to use a computer and sit in a chair for long periods of time.

People also tend to ignore the social side of this. I live alone and earn £60k. I can't really imagine how my life would significantly improve if I were on £120k. A few more holidays and an earlier retirement maybe, but that's it. That's not worth the extra effort and stress it would bring. I do my contracted hours and I don't even communicate with colleagues outside of that. It's not really an expectation at my level.

If I added a dependent spouse and children to the mix, that money looks a lot more appealing and might be worth the extra stress and effect. Men aren't earning more in a vacuum.

@KnockDownNinjas you didn't answer why bricklayers and nurses aren't paid similar wages.

In the same way that we don't ask why women on Tehran don't throw off their hijabs and get down the pub, why do we expect women to be able to aim for things which they've never seen modelled in real life. I'm WC and I didn't know any career minded women growing up. One mum of a teenage friend was a solicitor and yet friend moaned about it all the time as her mum was never around and seemed constantly disappointed in her non academic daughter. You might as well have aimed to be an astronaut in the council estate where I grew up. More girls I knew wanted to be on big brother rather than go to university.