That it’s women who are still locked down?

[Sadie789]

My DH goes back to work next week and rightly so, long overdue in my opinion.

However, I can’t go back to work as with two young DC we have no childcare and it’s not possible to do my job from home.

Under normal circumstances without childcare it wouldn’t really be an issue as there would be classes and clubs and play parks and soft plays and friends to meet up with, so a full weekly schedule out and about with things to do.

I can’t take them to the supermarket or round the shops either, no grandparents allowed etc.

As it stands none of these things are available nor are likely to be for a while, so for me my situation has not changed from the initial lockdown - stay at home, go out for exercise (weather permitting).

Meanwhile my DH and the Hs of my friends are all back at work out of the house living normal days. At the weekends the golf is back on so that’s a leisure option.

Many of my friends are also trying to work from home while looking after children, some also homeschooling older ones.

Women who don’t have children are also on the back foot as many of the professions which are traditionally female - hair and beauty, retail, hospitality - remain closed and will be for some time.

Meanwhile men are back in the workplace. When furlough ends it will be those who are able to present for work and give all their attention to their job who are preferred by employers. Recruitment will be skewed by this too. It’s the traditionally male industries that are able to return earlier- outdoor and manual work.

When it does return childcare is likely to be limited in hours and more expensive- Scotland has quietly dropped the 30 free hours from
August that were going to make it financially viable for me to work. Now it’s going to be a matter of me earning a couple of hundred pounds extra per month instead of nearly £1000 that was previously the case.

I am far from a feminist, but it feels like any equality women had gained is being seriously eroded by lockdown and the exit strategy that has deftly avoided any conversation around how women, especially with younger children, are getting the raw deal.

MarieQueen

WTF? I don’t need a man. You know well I was objecting to him being treated so poorly for nothing more than being a man. He has not said anything other than agreeing with at least a dozen women who have posted on this thread.

Plan

Do see the use of the emoji. I was being slightly tongue in cheek, your use of “corroborated” amused me. Your defensive response even more so, maybe “corroborating” my point

He isn’t being “treated badly” because he’s a man. Posters are objecting to yet another tone deaf response from someone who doesn’t understand how discussing a wider issue by their class (in this case male or female) works. You see it time and time again on MN.

@PinkiOcelot that is not a sensible argument if he is the higher earner, leaving mothers trapped. It’s shit, I enabled my dh career progression by staying at home. I was too blind at the time. By God I would do it differently if I could.

@PicsInRed

Silencing men the very second they open their mouths is a great step towards gender equality. Bravo.

Do they pay you to police men off the threads here or is it just a hobby for you?

I'm not surprised men like @AmateurDad are reluctant to post. He's merely pointing out that he's a bloke in the same position that some women are complaining about. He's not asking for a medal.

What you do by dismissing a point is artificially skew the argument so that it's almost all women who post, and then you can use that to back up the argument that only women are suffering.

I do hope that this situation will help the unhappy amongst the women to realise that they don't like the sexist set up in their lives, and do something about it.

Lots of people are struggling, it was perfectly valid for @AmateurDad to give his family's perspective, which is the same as many of us have been saying. The OP's family has made certain choices and now she realises she's limited her options. It's important to be clear about the difference between the outcome of choices and real sexism, because real sexism exists and requires robust challenge whenever it occurs.

MRex how is the fact that women, even those working full time like their male partners, are spending disproportionately more time doing childcare than men not sexism?

I think its individual circumstances. My DH has been furloughed for weeks. I'm NHS so have been at work throughout. No young DC to look after here though

I think its individual circumstances.

Published research proves otherwise.

@SharonasCorona - if a woman's partner isn't doing a fair share of childcare then they either chose that as a couple for a reason that suits them, or the woman chose the wrong man. I have every sympathy for single parents and zero sympathy for women who choose to do part-time low-paid jobs to facilitate their husband's career, or who choose to procreate with wankers, but in either case cry sexism at the whole world. Own your own life choices, if you don't like where that leaves you then change what you do. Nobody put you there but yourself.

or the woman chose the wrong man.

Do you also trot out this advice to women whose partners turn out to be abusive? Why not push men to be more responsible instead of attacking the women deceived/browbeaten by them?

“The study, by the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS), reveals that mothers have taken on far more childcare and home education than fathers since schools closed in March.

More bloody fool them, if they have a partner. Once again down to the couple to sort out, yet women roll over, and play the martyr, whilst complaining about inequality.

@SharonasCorona - no, I think men who are abusive should be locked up. Laziness and abuse are very different issues, I don't know why you're suggesting they're similar?

@SharonasCorona

Published research proves that there's a lot of people with the same individual circumstances. It doesn't prove that they are happy/unhappy about it. It doesn't prove that they were forced to be there/chose to be there.

Because people often reveal behaviour (whether abuse or laziness) further down a relationship, then a woman may have already become enmeshed (children, mortgage, etc).

Published research proves that there's a lot of people with the same individual circumstances. It doesn't prove that they are happy/unhappy about it. It doesn't prove that they were forced to be there/chose to be there.

But it does say something about the expectations for women in our society. The research shows even high earning women are doing more childcare than their husbands. Of course they must all be ecstatic about that 🙄

*or the woman chose the wrong man.

Do you also trot out this advice to women whose partners turn out to be abusive*

YES!! If you're in a relationship with an abusive partner, you don't stay and try to change their behaviour. You get out, because you've madethe mistake of choosing an abuser.

It is not the victim's fault, but the victim can take responsibility for rectifying their situation. This goes for abuse or sexism.

@SharonasCorona Women giving a shit about expectations is a big part of the problem. That's my point.

Because people often reveal behaviour (whether abuse or laziness) further down a relationship, then a woman may have already become enmeshed (children, mortgage, etc)

Yes, and that makes things very very hard. But those situations won't change unless the victims take some responsibility for improving their situation. Do you honestly think it's better to try to change your violent partner than to leave?

If you had his job you’d be returning to work so it’s not really a feminist issue is it, it’s just the job you chose can’t return yet .

Of course women should leave abusive or lazy partners, I left my lazy partner. But it takes women on average 7 attempts to leave an abusive partner (and it’s not that easy even when they’re not abusive). So let’s not place all the responsibility on women.

@SharonasCorona - Please would you copy for me the bit from your mortgage paperwork and children's birth certificates that says you now can't call your DH out when he's being lazy and tell him he needs to do his fair share? Thanks

All the responsibility shouldn't be placed on victims (you seem to assume all victims are women, which might explain some of your points of view)

Some responsibility should be placed on victims for sorting out their situations in their lives, because we are all responsible for ourselves, as I'm sure you agree.

I don't know why you keep referring to whether or not it's easy or not. I've never suggested that anybody could just swan out of the door, whistling.

Please would you copy for me the bit from your mortgage paperwork and children's birth certificates that says you now can't call your DH out when he's being lazy and tell him he needs to do his fair share? Thanks

But there are so many threads where women have called out their partners for laziness and the man dies fuck all, and yes, they should leave them but it’s not always easy. Sorry to keep repeating that but it isn’t. And I spend a lot of time on MN saying LTB.

Oh fgs. He earns more than you. So yes he goes back first. This isn't a feminist issue. It is your personal circumstances.

I did have to laugh out loud at this. Surely nobody is this stupid?

Of course it is a feminist issue. Lack of childcare affects women most because the societal expectation is still the burden of caring falls to the woman. Women are socialised to take on the caring role and be present for their children so are far more likely to work part time or be in lower earning but more flexible positions. Men who take a career hit by going part time, asking for flexibility or even taking shared parental leave exist but they are rarer.