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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Parents wfh and the furloughed for childcare

794 replies

baskininjoe · 17/05/2020 16:28

I am childless, currently by choice because I am in my twenties but do plan to have a child in the future at some point.

AIBU to be getting annoyed with the short end of the stick that the childless are getting right now with everything regarding childcare and lockdown.

I have so many colleges who are currently wfh whilst looking after children. I completely sympathise and understand this is hard but I am really starting to get annoyed with them being less productive, and logging less hours for the same pay (no reduction), whilst the rest of us are expected to pick up the slack, and work more hours to make sure tasks still get completed, whilst not being paid anymore for our extra time and effort. I know there is no perfect solution but it really grates on me that they aren't being paid for what they complete which could therefore compensate the rest of us for the extra we are having to do because they are not fully fulfilling their role.

On top of this with the idea of school provisionally going back in June some of these parents have said they will not be sending their DC to school, despite a place being open and available to them, and therefore expect the rest of us to continue to pick up their slack because they can't work as productively whilst looking after their children.

My housemate (shared house) works in a place where many parents have been furloughed for childcare reasons, despite their being lots of work to do, just because they've asked to be. This means that my housemate has been incredibly stressed as the workload is still high but the team is now smaller, whilst many of their colleges are receiving 80% on the taxpayer, despite their actually being work for them to do, all because they complained to their employer that it was too hard working with children and thus asking to be furloughed. This is especially grating as it is taxpayer money that is being used to pay them, despite their actually being a job they could do and be payed for.

I am not at all against the furlough scheme, another of my housemates work in a restaurant and is also on furlough and this is absolutely the right thing as they can not work, despite wanting to, as their place of work is not allowed to open.

However I think:

  1. Some employers and employees are taking the piss by allowing staff to be furloughed/asking to be furloughed despite their actually being a job to do. Which then negatively affects the rest of the teams as the work level remains the same but there are less people to do the work so the remaining people have to work harder with no extra pay.
  1. Employers need to be understanding but also firm with parents that although some productively will be affected by having DC at home, a certain level still needs to be consistently met or they are not doing their job properly and that negatively affects the business and the rest of the team.
  1. Employers need to be especially understanding and grateful to employees still working, who are picking up the slack for those not being as productive because of DC at home/furloughed for childcare reasons despite their still being work. And actually need to consider financially compensating them for the high level of extra work and overtime and/or promise to look at these people first for upcoming promotions as as they have shown serious dedication to the business.
  1. Employers should not be allowing parents to choose not to send DC to school when they can if it continues to affect the parents productivity level.

I understand this is a hard time for everyone, and parents do have it hard with few childcare options for DC, however that is not the problem of their colleagues and they should not be negatively affected by being expected to work far far more for no extra gain. My housemate and I are stressed beyond belief both having to work 10-12 hours every day for what would be a 9-5 office job in order to pick up the slack for colleagues whilst not being paid anymore whilst these colleagues are only completely 4-6 hours a day yet continuing to be paid the same as us. And on top of this are expecting it to continue despite their child being able to go to school soon because they are choosing not to send them.

OP posts:
Person23 · 18/05/2020 22:04

OP:

“AIBU to be getting annoyed with the short end of the stick that the childless are getting right now with everything regarding childcare and lockdown.”

Yes – you are not being unreasonable to be annoyed about having to work more, but you are being very unreasonable to think that you are ‘getting the short end of the stick’ – it infers that you are worse off than parents.

“I have so many colleges who are currently wfh whilst looking after children. I completely sympathise and understand this is hard but I am really starting to get annoyed with them being less productive, and logging less hours for the same pay (no reduction), whilst the rest of us are expected to pick up the slack, and work more hours to make sure tasks still get completed, whilst not being paid anymore for our extra time and effort.” “I know there is no perfect solution but it really grates on me that they aren't being paid for what they complete which could therefore compensate the rest of us for the extra we are having to do because they are not fully fulfilling their role.”

People who sympathise and understand their situation are not annoyed with parents for something that is outside of their control. Being annoyed that they are getting their full pay also shows you don’t sympathise or understand. Sympathy and understanding is not something you can just say you have – your attitude has to back that up.

“On top of this with the idea of school provisionally going back in June some of these parents have said they will not be sending their DC to school, despite a place being open and available to them, and therefore expect the rest of us to continue to pick up their slack because they can't work as productively whilst looking after their children.”

Considering the different parts of the UK can’t even agree on whether this is the right move, and the fact that many teachers have said it would not be safe as there is not adequate space to socially distance properly, would you put the possibility of your colleagues having to work harder because you’re keeping your children home, before the possibility of people dying because you sent them to school? I know I wouldn’t (and I don’t even have children by the way). You think parents enjoy juggling parenting with work?

“My housemate (shared house) works in a place where many parents have been furloughed for childcare reasons, despite their being lots of work to do, just because they've asked to be. This means that my housemate has been incredibly stressed as the workload is still high but the team is now smaller, whilst many of their colleges are receiving 80% on the taxpayer, despite their actually being work for them to do, all because they complained to their employer that it was too hard working with children and thus asking to be furloughed.”

Until you’ve been the sole caregiver for young children and tried to juggle that with full-time work, you should not judge those who have. How do you know these aren’t single parents and/or people with other caring responsibilities, people with mental or physical health limitations or people whose children keep them up half of the night depriving them of sleep? Employees don’t always share these details with employers (funnily enough out of fear of attitudes like yours).

“This is especially grating as it is taxpayer money that is being used to pay them, despite their actually being a job they could do and be payed for.”

The furloughed are taxpayers (actually, we all are as income tax is only 25% of total revenues collected. We all pay VAT and NI contributions etc.)

“1. Some employers and employees are taking the piss by allowing staff to be furloughed/asking to be furloughed despite their actually being a job to do. Which then negatively affects the rest of the teams as the work level remains the same but there are less people to do the work so the remaining people have to work harder with no extra pay.”

Employers will be allowing staff to be furloughed if they need to save the money, and if workers such as yourself are not telling them that they can’t make up the extra time, they have no reason to refuse those requests. Also, you don’t want parents WFH if they can’t do that as effectively as they could at work, but you also want them not to be furloughed. What do you suggest they do?

“2. Employers need to be understanding but also firm with parents that although some productively will be affected by having DC at home, a certain level still needs to be consistently met or they are not doing their job properly and that negatively affects the business and the rest of the team.”

So you want them to set an arbitrary target for all parents even though they won’t have any idea of the possibility of achieving that target without trying for themselves? And this added pressure will magically improve the productivity of those staff?

“3. Employers need to be especially understanding and grateful to employees still working, who are picking up the slack for those not being as productive because of DC at home/furloughed for childcare reasons despite their still being work. And actually need to consider financially compensating them for the high level of extra work and overtime and/or promise to look at these people first for upcoming promotions as as they have shown serious dedication to the business.”

In case you weren’t aware, parents (mostly women) are already penalised for being parents. That is what a huge part of the gender pay gap is about. Interestingly, family responsibilities discrimination is illegal in the US, and frankly it should be here too. To offer a promotion to childless employees first is blatantly wrong, and blaming it on a lack of productivity during a global pandemic that nobody could have predicted would cause parents to have to WFH whilst caring for their children, is ignorant at best.

“4. Employers should not be allowing parents to choose not to send DC to school when they can if it continues to affect the parents productivity level.”

Employers should have no say in this! Once it is safe to do so, I would be surprised if there was a single parent who wouldn’t be happy to send them back. You think people enjoy WFH and taking care of their child(ren) at the same time?!

“I understand this is a hard time for everyone, and parents do have it hard with few childcare options for DC, however that is not the problem of their colleagues and they should not be negatively affected by being expected to work far far more for no extra gain. My housemate and I are stressed beyond belief both having to work 10-12 hours every day for what would be a 9-5 office job in order to pick up the slack for colleagues whilst not being paid anymore whilst these colleagues are only completely 4-6 hours a day yet continuing to be paid the same as us. And on top of this are expecting it to continue despite their child being able to go to school soon because they are choosing not to send them.”

Would you choose to send your child to school to prevent your colleagues working harder, if doing so may result in the deaths of more vulnerable/elderly people? And let’s not forget children aren’t immune to coronavirus. If we were talking about a couple of months down the line when the R rate was lower or at least England, Scotland and Wales could agree that it was safe for children to return, fair enough, but we have the highest death rate in Europe right now and are still on almost full lockdown so I can understand the hesitancy.

I could argue, that parents are working harder than you based on your 10-12 hour days (if they’re achieving 4-6 hours work on top of full-time childcare, that is like working at 150-160% productivity, compared with your 125-150% productivity) by the way. And that’s on the basis of childcare only being for 8 hours a day which it obviously isn’t.

Again I want to point out that I am childless, and WFH, and have PTSD, type one diabetes and multiple other personal issues I’d rather not get into, so whilst I sympathise with your situation, it does not give you carte blanche to generalise about parents as if they’re having a fun time whilst you’re picking up the slack. If you’re so unhappy, tell your employer that you aren’t able to work more than your contracted hours. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with complaining that you are struggling with your situation and/or the workload, but to say that you are annoyed with parents because they are receiving their normal pay when they’re doing the best they can with a horrible situation, is completely unreasonable.

Firstimemam · 18/05/2020 22:04

I see what you mean the short end of the straw?? Really? I am doing 18h days because of this and you work 10-12h days and you're telling me you've got the short end of the straw? Rethink, suck it up and if you think you've got too much and can't handle it - speak to your manager. Those parents are doing way more hours than you are.

RestaurantoffBroadway · 18/05/2020 22:24

The poster who gave the OP good advice about how to approach the boss gracefully and to consider the need for diversity and experience was very good. I'd reread that one, OP.

Right now if anyone refused to work beyond their contracted hours the business would go under Yes!! So your job in this pandemic is protecting the business and all the jobs by wfh long hours to keep the show on the road.

My job in this pandemic is to keep generating money for my company and also protect my local community by keeping my children at home with me. Susan down the road is 80, her job is to sit tight and do bugger all. Fred's job is to put himself at risk by driving a bus. Etcetera.

Your job is hard. I get it. But it's YOUR job in this pandemic. Not the job you're paid for, the job you are doing in society. Good luck with it and thank you for doing it.

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2020 22:28

Funny how poor overworked OP has has time to read 27 pages and regularly copy, paste and respond to 4-5 posts. Day off, was it?

and

If you worked 11 hours, slept 7 hours that leaves 6 hours a day. Shopping for 3 households could be done in a couple of hours once a week... ?

If you worked 12 and slept 8 there's still 4 hours.

So I thought I'd do a touch of looking into productivity and timekeeping (seeing as the OP's job is to monitor others and has made a big fuss over parents poor time management skills and how unfair it is to her).

The OP posted at constantly between 15:10 and 16:35 today (15:11, 15:34, 15:39, 15:42, 15:44, 15:50, 15:57, 16:03, 16:05, 16:22, 16:32 and 16:36 fo be exact). Thats 1hr 20mins. In working hours.

Then once at 17:26

And then had a flurry again this evening for 40 minutes (19:18,19:23, 19:27, 19:32, 19:48, 19:53, 20:01 and 20:02)

Thats pretty much two solid full hours - without much time to read when not typing from the length of posts. Certainly not enough time to do anything else during those periods. Lots more time on the internet than the OP seems to say they have free.

Then again at 21:24, 21:35 and 21:47.

Hardly:
Sorry if I take 5 minutes to check my thread. Oh but all these parents complaining they never get a minute to themselves have also been posting, actually far more regularly and consistently over a number of hours, so are they lying about being busy too?

It wasn't 5 minutes. It was significantly longer.

I note here I don't recall other posters saying that their job was to clock the productivity of others so I find this interesting. Nor has everyone said they are wfh themselves (they may well simply have enormous sympathy for others who are, that they know who are struggling to stay sane).

Have you missed the queues at the supermarkets? The fact I cook for my elderly grandparents and delivery food and other medicines aswell. Have a panic disorder. Actually need some time to drive between supermarket, GP's house, parents house, my house. It all takes time and adds up pretty dam quick.

Especially when you use up 2 hours of that precious time to whinge on MN about other people's lack of productivity and efficient use of time and planning.

As it goes I recommend this thing known as 'click and collect' to reduce your time queuing to anyone struggling in this way. Magic. Available at many large supermarkets. Maybe even in big huge expensive cities. Just book a pick up slot, so minimual queuing time, as they try to avoid lengthy queues. There aren't the same problems as trying to get an illusive delivery slot. Or to try and source delivery to door from alternative suppliers (this is working a treat for us - especially since we've grouped together with other household and given the OP lives in a shared house and is shopping for others - its saving us quite a lot). Great ways to be more organised and to help you juggle things better

Except we have another rebuff here:

Community groups could possibly shop for my parents but I really don't know how to even start looking at this.

A lack of willingness to adapt to the situation and try and find ways to improve the situation because its easier to be a martyr and bash others instead. There always seems to be something there to make life harder and worse than everyone elses.

'I don't just have one job. I have two jobs. Which I'm working over time on for both. One of which is as a carer where I look after sick and dying people. As well as visiting and cooking for my elderly (and vulnerable) relatives. All whilst queuing for hours at supermarkets every day, delivering medicine and managing my panic disorder. So don't you dare question my halo. I have it far worse than you. All with dyslexia'

Also some of my drip feeds, like my dyslexia, are completely irrelevant. And I would not have mentioned it at all had it not been for multiple posters patronising and smugly taking the piss out of me for my spelling accompanied by gleeful grin and winky faces until I felt the need to defend myself from the multiple implications that I am stupid.

When anyone came up with a point that wasn't liked or unpleasant parent bashing comments were picked up on there was an excuse or a drip feed. And people who were implying stupidity, maybe, just might have had a point...

... the comment about sticking kids in front of the tv for 4 hours WAS stupid, grossly immature and naive and the sign of someone who has never encountered a 5 year old in the full grip of the 'but why????' stage or heard the wail of a child going 'Mummmmmmyyyyyy' repeatedly to get attention when Mum is engrossed in something else.

Or is on a deliberate wind up.

So I do begin to wonder just what the game is to be honest. It gets to a point where it just starts to fail to ring true. (And yes I did question it previously)

LaurieMarlow · 18/05/2020 22:29

Not the job you're paid for, the job you are doing in society.

This is a very useful distinction. Well articulated.

It’s not all about the needs of business right now, but society as a whole. We all have our bit to do, but that looks very different depending on who we’re talking about. There’s very little in the way of easy, like for like, comparisons to be made.

MiniMum97 · 18/05/2020 22:30

I do not have young children but I really sympathise with those that do. You may be working hard but imagine for one second trying to work and home school and look after young children at the same time. Plus dealing with al the worry and stress we are all dealing with as a result of this situation, while being cooped up with your children all the time not able to get out and at their normal activities. Plus just bring with your children 24/7 everyday without a break! Tbh some of them should get a medal!

I have colleagues who have young children and I can see that it is so stressful for them. I feel for them and hope that my employer does everything they can to support them.

It's hard for everyone. No one has any choice - they are making as best they can out of an impossible situation. And if some do choose not to send children back 'to school, I don't blame them. So I think you are being very very unreasonable.

baskininjoe · 18/05/2020 22:42

"“I have so many colleges who are currently wfh whilst looking after children. I completely sympathise and understand this is hard but I am really starting to get annoyed with them being less productive, and logging less hours for the same pay (no reduction), whilst the rest of us are expected to pick up the slack, and work more hours to make sure tasks still get completed, whilst not being paid anymore for our extra time and effort.” “I know there is no perfect solution but it really grates on me that they aren't being paid for what they complete which could therefore compensate the rest of us for the extra we are having to do because they are not fully fulfilling their role.”

People who sympathise and understand their situation are not annoyed with parents for something that is outside of their control. Being annoyed that they are getting their full pay also shows you don’t sympathise or understand. Sympathy and understanding is not something you can just say you have – your attitude has to back that up."

Ok I phrased this clumsily, my mistake what I mean is

I completely sympathise and understand this is hard but I am really starting to get annoyed that I am averaging 12 hours a day to pick up for the slack that parents can't help but create because I appreciate that they have to look after their children. However this does not change the fact that for the business I am completining 12 hours a day whilst they are doing 4-6 yet we are still being paid the same and i am not being compensated for the extra I am doing in any way, either with extra overtime payment, or the promise of time off in lieu in the future.

OP posts:
LaurieMarlow · 18/05/2020 22:47

OP, this is the best comment on this shitshow of a thread.

So your job in this pandemic is protecting the business and all the jobs by wfh long hours to keep the show on the road ... Your job is hard. I get it. But it's YOUR job in this pandemic. Not the job you're paid for, the job you are doing in society. Good luck with it and thank you for doing it.

Think about it. Bigger picture. What are you contributing at a societal level. If it’s too much, go talk to your boss.

But fgs quite taking this out on your colleagues whose ‘societal’ job is immensely challenging and not something they wanted either.

LaurieMarlow · 18/05/2020 22:47

Quit not quite

Voice0fReason · 18/05/2020 22:54

I don't see any parents trying to come up with their own solutions either
Oh so THAT'S the problem. Parents aren't trying to come up with their own solutions. It will definitely help them now you've suggested they use the TV for 4 hours to occupy their children, they will never have thought of that.

Reducing your colleagues hours and pay will not reduce your workload. They cannot work longer hours because they are not prepared to neglect their children.

If you cannot work the hours you are being pressured into working, you need to talk to your management and set your own boundaries. Blaming your colleagues who are parents for not doing more is just nasty.

You don't have to clean up after your flatmates. It's lovely that you are helping out family members but there are lots of volunteers looking for people to shop for so you don't need to do all of that.

Working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week is not sustainable, it is something you are choosing to do and it is no-one else's fault.

baskininjoe · 18/05/2020 22:55

@redtoothbrush

That post is deeply unpleasant on a number of levels.

You have repeatedly criticised me for monitoring others productivity (despite me explaining multiple times it is part of my job) yet take it upon yourself to monitor my. Hypocrite much? Maybe just maybe I have time to read and reply to Mumsnet whilst queuing at a supermarket or pharmacy.

'I don't just have one job. I have two jobs. Which I'm working over time on for both. One of which is as a carer where I look after sick and dying people. As well as visiting and cooking for my elderly (and vulnerable) relatives. All whilst queuing for hours at supermarkets every day, delivering medicine and managing my panic disorder. So don't you dare question my halo. I have it far worse than you. All with dyslexia'

Don't you dare put this in quote marks, I never said this and you are changing my words to make them Whiney.

Firstly, I am not working overtime for my 2nd job, I am doing an extra shift right now than I originally planned but I am being payed in full for all the work I do. Secondly I am a career but nowhere did I say sick and dying people, I said vulnerable people, you have no idea what this means, but for the record none are sick and dying and I am not trying to win '-!6 halo points' with it. It's just a job I do for the money. I happen to enjoy it and find it rewarding but when I first took the job it was purely because I needed it.
Secondly, yes I am cooking for (not visiting, merely doing drop offs) for elderly and vulnerable relatives - do you have a problem with that?
Thirdly I never said I queue for hours at the supermarket every day, but I'm sure every poster here can awknowledge that there are long queues at supermarkets/pharmacies ect, you know places people go to in order to get essentials.
I never said I had it worse, I said I have it shit too, to all the posters telling me my life is easy it's not.
Any my dyslexia is not relevant to any of this: it's purely to defend myself from patronising posters who choose to attack me for my spelling mistakes when this has nothing to do with the thread.

"And people who were implying stupidity, maybe, just might have had a point..."

This is beyond rude. How dare you. I am not stupid I have a learning difficulty. You know same as anyone with dyspraxia. I should not be discriminated or belittled for this at all.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 18/05/2020 23:00

You know same as anyone with dyspraxia.

One line. Says all I need to know.

baskininjoe · 18/05/2020 23:05

@RedToothBrush

Sorry what do you want me to compare it to.

Dyspraxia is the closest and most similar condition to dyslexia. Something you are repeatedly choosing to mock me about.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 18/05/2020 23:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

baskininjoe · 18/05/2020 23:13

@RedToothBrush

Well if you don't believe a word then don't engage, no one is forcing you to. I would actually appreciate it if you left this thread as I feel attacked and bullied by you. And your undermining of my learning difficulty and calling me stupid is extremely hurtful.

But just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it is untrue at all. So please refrain from calling me a liar or patronising me.

OP posts:
Teabaseddiet · 18/05/2020 23:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

baskininjoe · 18/05/2020 23:15

@Teabaseddiet then please do feel free to stop reading. It would improve my mental health to as people 'calling bullshit' on my life is extremely hurtful, patronising, and undermines everything I do.

OP posts:
Mammyloveswine · 18/05/2020 23:21

This is a nasty goady thread and op has just spent ages backtracking when pulled up..

I've a 2 year old and a 4 year old, 4 year old has ASD... I'm working from home and in school (I'm a teacher) and DH is still working 12 hour days out of the house...

I regularly get up at 4am to fit work in or stay up until midnight... after a day looking after two children I am exhausted! On DHs days off I spend 12 hours a day catching up. I worked through my Easter holidays.

If I have to go back on the 1st june full time I only have childcare for one of my children (the others nursery has closed), therefore my only option is to send the other day be to move in with grandparents until the summer holidays.

I sincerely hope you never have to go through what I have had to cope with during this time.

Londonmummy66 · 18/05/2020 23:27

OK I'll bite - I posted a long post earlier which I hoped would be helpful but you haven't had the decency to acknowledge. So now I'll be a bit blunter. It might be tough for you but it is really no tougher for you than for anyone else. If you are working too hard then shed something. TBH if you came whinging to me that it was too much and I found out that you had a second job I'd be a lot less sympathetic. Frankly your attitude sucks and you are not a Florence Nightingale for doing a second caring job. Grow up and face the real world - the one where life's not fair and then you die...

And please don't whine on about your SEN issues - are you dyslexic or dyspraxic? The fact that you use both terms indiscriminately suggests to me that you are neither and are simply playing the SEN card, as well as the carers' card and the elderly relatives card to facilitate your race to the bottom. (I have a genuinely dyspraxic child and I can confirm that it does not create an empathy vacuum nor an inability to spell or get your grammar right (eg it's paid not payed)).

I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt as a young and somewhat naive person but your continued unpleasantness has found the edge of my patience.

peoplepleaser1 · 18/05/2020 23:29

OP I agree with you. Of the seven business owners I know all have the furloughed employees or those bale to be less productive for childcare reasons first in the list for redundancy.

This sounds terrible but the cold hard fact is that businesses have to be profitable to survive. They are businesses and not charities.

I think it's highly likely that your employers are well aware of the imbalance but your job prospects are stronger given higher are in a position to be flexible and productive.

None of this is fair of course, but nothing about the current situation is fair.

Newname4now · 18/05/2020 23:30

Um children are our future, I'm glad as many parents as possible are able to care for their children as best as is possible. I don't have dependent children either and like you OP am picking up slack. No one knows what's around the corner.

LaurieMarlow · 18/05/2020 23:33

OP, instead of getting into more cat fights with people, make a plan for how you’re going to raise this with your boss.

I don’t think there’s a single poster in this thread advising you to do different. Pull up your big girl pants and sort it out.

MrPickles73 · 18/05/2020 23:34

Talk to the Teacher's Unions and make sure schools and nurseries are open on the 1st June and that should free up some of your colleagues?

elenacampana · 18/05/2020 23:35

Op - switch off your phone and breathe. You’re coming across terribly and really, is it worth it? Sounds like you have a long day ahead of you tomorrow so just go to bed and focus on chilling out.

I’m child free myself and wfh, but I’ve cringed at your posts. Parents wfh with young children have it much, much harder than you right now. Trust me - you sound like a plant pot going on about productivity and cutting pay. The stuff about promotions is insane. No, you shouldn’t be looked at more favourably than parents who couldn’t be as productive as you during a pandemic, o certainly don’t expect this kind of preferential treatment for myself. You’re being a little wrapped up in yourself and a little ridiculous.

Dial down the intensity.

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