God, lateness really winds me up. Why are people so late?

[pointing]

If you're a late person, why?!

Exactly Ochon.

I'll try to be flexible if someone gives me lots if notice or if something really out if the ordinary happens but I run my sessions back to back and insist on setting and finishing on time. I've had to terminate tuition for a couple who assumed I'd baby sit until they could be bothered to collect and I've lost a couple who said I was too inflexible. The rest seem to appreciate it time and want value for their fee.

Particularly rolling my eyes at the ‘my life is too busy and important for me to wait for your entitled late arrival’ post

If you are regularly late and expect me to wait for you as though I have nothing better to do then yes it is entitled of you to assume that turning up late is acceptable. A one off is fine, 5 minutes for a casual meet up is no problem but regular, habitual, excessive lateness is just rude.

I had a friend who would arrange to meet for coffee on my morning off work where I didnt have appointments/commitments. I would tell her upfront that I could meet her after 9am (school run) but I would have to leave by 12pm as I had to be at work at 1.30pm (to give me time to get home/get my work stuff and put on my uniform/get to work on time by public transport)

We would arrange to meet at 10am and as I'm walking into the cafe at 9.55 I get a text saying she's had an issue so will be there in 20 minutes. Fair enough, it happens occasionally. At 10.30 I'm still waiting and get another text that she missed the bus so will be there in 15 minutes. I've already been sitting in a cafe alone for 30 minutes so text to say I'll go for a wander in a couple of the shops next to the cafe and to text me when she arrives. At 10.50 she texts to say shes getting off the bus and where am I? I text back immediately to say I'm in ABC shop ... 25 minutes later I'm still standing at the door of ABC shop and see her stroll up with a bag from XYZ shop because she remembered she needed to pick up X and while she was there she bumped into someone she knew and stopped for a chat. By now its 11.15 and by the time we get back to the cafe, queue, order and get sat down with our drinks it is 11.35 and we have 25 minutes before I have to leave. So out of 2 hours I spend ¾ of that time waiting for her to arrive.

This would happen every time we met up, and eventually I just stopped waiting. When it got to 10.20 and she wasnt there, I'd text to say I couldn't wait any longer as by the time she'd arrive I'd have to leave soon after so it wasn't worth waiting and was going home. The friendship fizzled out because she was outraged that I would leave, because nobody else ever called her on her timekeeping, and I was outraged that she would think I had nothing better to do than sit and wait for her and would continue to do so.

I have a friend who is always late (unless it is a school production, when she manages to be very early to get a good seat!!)

I've talked to her about it before, having seen her looking massively stressed taking the children to school (I was on my way back home, having dropped mine off) and saying how I wouldn't cope with that level of preventable stress every day. I pointed out that if she got everybody ready to go 5 minutes earlier than they had to be, she could drop them at school and have a less stressful journey to work. But if they ran a bit late, she would still be on time.

She said she has two main problems:

a) She has done a particular journey in x many minutes once, so only now allows that amount for the journey, even though the shortest time was a one off, because she knows it can be done.

b) She overestimates what she can do in the time left before she has to go and will think she has time to just quickly hang out the washing, or unload the dishwasher or whatever, when in reality she hasn't.

Massively frustrating though and constantly enabled by people who make allowances whereas I have become a bit harder in my old age and don't stand for it any more!

I'm not a robot either but having reached my late 40's I've been showering and getting dressed independently for a while now so I know it takes me 20 minutes. I don't decide to make a roast dinner if i've only got 15 minutes to prepare food and eat it.

I have serious executive dysfunction as a symptom of my mental illness, and fatigue as a result of my chronic physical illness, plus I battle with a 6yo People make jokes about my lateness/inability to plan and execute properly but it does really upset me. I have short bursts of motivation and then really struggle to do anything properly for days. Its awful feeling like you're letting people down all the time but even when I try my very best to be organised there's just always something, which in turn affects my self esteem and motivation again, like a cycle. I hate it and I know people think 'just do better'. I can't explain fully, it's just not that easy. (I understand this isn't the case for lots of late people, some may have genuine issues, some may just be rude!).

Just want to add I'm never ridiculously late, it's 5-10 mins, which is fine in most situations but actually makes it harder for people to understand because they think 'it's so easy to start everything 10 mins earlier and not run the risk' but it's not, I don't know exactly why but it's not, and if someone doesn't suffer the way I do I wouldn't expect them to understand. At the same time it's so crap that they can't see I am making an effort despite it seeming like I'm not trying hard enough.

I’m not a robot and don’t do things in the exact same order, but it’s really not difficult to factor in 10 minutes for a shower, 10 for dressing, 10 for drying hair, 10 for make-up and 10 for unexpected things (someone earlier mentioned ‘forgetting’ she might have to go to the loo...?) . If your shower then takes 12 or 14 minutes because you’re dawdling in there, you still have flexibility and will still be on time.

See, I'm baffled by the people who know it takes 10 minutes to have a shower and 8 minutes to eat breakfast or whatever and can work out to the minute how long they need to get ready.

I am 30 years old. I have been showering independently for over ⅔ of my life, so I have had long enough to work out how long a shower takes. Ditto with breakfast. Ditto with dressing/hair/make up etc.

I give myself an hour from getting up to getting out of the door (90 mins if I also have to get DD out of the door too) because I know that I usually take about 20 mins in the bathroom - have a wee, brush my teeth, have a shower, wash my face etc - about 10 mins to get dried/dressed, 15 minutes to do hair/makeup, 10 mins for breakfast. That is more than enough time for me. None of my timings are exact, but equally it is also the amount of time I allow myself for a particular task. If your routine takes 2hrs then you need to give yourself a minimum of 2 hours, not a maximum.

Some days I have extra time because my routine is shorter - eg I went out the night before so washed and styled my hair. In the morning I didn't need to wash it again so was out of the bathroom in less than 15 minutes and only needed 5 minutes for minimal makeup. This meant I "gained" 15 minutes in my routine so can afford to have a more leisurely breakfast or a quick household task, but only a job that can be dropped if I realise I am about to run over and be late.

If however I take longer in the shower for some reason, then instead of continuing as normal I automatically look at ways to reduce my other time "expenditures". So if I'm in the bathroom for half an hour, I will do minimal make up and quickly blast my hair with the hairdryer and tie it up rather than style it (10 mins) and have some fruit and a cereal bar for breakfast (5 mins) so that the extra 10 minutes in the shower is balanced out.

This thread actually has my blood boiling. I'm remembering all the times I've stood around waiting for my friend who is always late. Not everyone meets in pubs & cafes. I've been left standing in isolated places on my own because we were meeting to go for a walk. I have kids who I'm rushing around after & can still organise myself to be there on time. My friend has left me stranded on her day off & she doesn't have kids. She's late for pretty much every thing, but she's never missed a flight!

Just wondering how long is an acceptable time to wait for someone before deciding they're a no show?

I didn't say I might forget to go to the toilet. I said I can't allow for possibly needing to. I have IBS so going to the toilet can be a few seconds or it can be 20 minutes. I don't know in advance when I'll need to go as I'm not one of those who has a shite at the same time every day.

Of course the other factor in lateness which I'm always whingeing about is mobile phones. In the 90s people were not late to meet you in town, in a pub etc, because they knew that if they turned up late and you hadn't waited at the agreed spot they might never find you. Now people relax in the knowledge that if they are late they can call and find out where you've moved on to.

Anyway I've got to meet someone in an hour so I'd better get going before I become guilty of extreme hypocrisy 😀

She's late for pretty much every thing, but she's never missed a flight

And that is the thing really isn't it. The people who say they've got some sort of "ism" will still make sure they are on time for a job interview or a flight, but their "friends" and colleagues can put up with their habitual lateness.

If you want to, you can be on time. You just choose not to be, unless it is important to you.

It also annoys me when people say "we'll just wait a couple of minutes for everyone to arrive". First thing in the morning, when people may be on a delayed train or stuck in traffic, fine. By 11am, when everyone is in work, not fine.

At the moment you are on a video meeting and you can see the time in the bottom left hand corner of your screen. If you have a meeting at 11, come off the previous one at 10.58, or slightly earlier if you need the loo (I assume that unless you have IBS like the poster above you know how long it takes to go to the loo?)

People were still late before mobile phones and it was quite stressful because you would be hanging around thinking you were in the wrong place or it was the wrong time.

People are late more now though. And some don't even bother making proper arrangements, just rely on turning up at vaguely the right place/time and finding where everyone else is.

I’m wondering about all the late people- do they give any thought to how horrible it is waiting for someone in a public place who doesn’t show? It makes me really anxious sitting there guarding a table for two people whilst other customers give me filthy looks for not sitting at a table for one when they need a two person table. Meanwhile I’m waiting for my invisible friend who doesn’t show knowing I have to be at work in 1.5 hours and worrying if they’ll show at all - should I carry on waiting? Or just leave? By now I’ve drunk two coffees that I could have had at home at far less cost and I’m still waiting. Now I’m worrying if something happened to them if they’re ok and just as I’m about to give up and leave they show up late. Yet again. And expect me to be delighted they’ve graced me with their presence only I’m not delighted because I now have only 10 mins spare and I have to rush off to get to work!

Yes, how very entitled and eye rolly of me not to be ecstatic to have just wasted almost 2 hours of my time 🙄

Just wondering how long is an acceptable time to wait for someone before deciding they're a no show?

1/2 hour. I waited and then i went home.Freezing cold November night.

The last straw,we where going for food and we needed to catch teh bus otherwise they stop serving food.

Missed that bus,got there no food.SO we had a few drinks,left to get food and i just came home.That was the last night out i had with her.

She was a great friend in other ways but the constant lateness killed it for me.

"See, I'm baffled by the people who know it takes 10 minutes to have a shower and 8 minutes to eat breakfast or whatever and can work out to the minute how long they need to get ready."

I don't know those exact times, but I know roughly how long it takes me to get ready in all. That's all you need to know really.

I absolutely hate it too. It is so disrespectful. Basically they are saying their time is more important than yours. ok, everyone is late occasionally, but those who are constantly late ... and then act like you are making a mountain out of a molehill when you mention it. Words fail me! It's time we punctuallers (made that one up!) just started getting up and leaving after an allotted amount of time. what do you think is a reasonable length of time to wait for someone? Personally, I think if you're more than twenty minutes late, I am not waiting for you.

"It makes me really anxious sitting there guarding a table for two people whilst other customers give me filthy looks for not sitting at a table for one when they need a two person table."

What's a table for one? I've never seen that. The tables where I live go in even numbers: 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. I can't even imagine a table with just one side.
I think it might do you good to get used to being alone in a cafe to be honest. It's a pleasure in itself and there's no need to think about it in terms of wasted money.
Even with people who are generally on time, it could always happen that you have to wait a bit for them.

Remembering that a very familiar routine takes X minutes does not make somebody a robot. If you genuinely can't remember how long it takes to do everything then time yourself and write it down so that you can use it the next day as a guide. I can't imagine every morning being a complete surprise and you having no recollection or concept of roughly how long things take. If it would make things easier, make a chart.
7am- wake up. Toilet/shower/teeth
7:30 - breakfast
7:45 - tidy up
8:00 - leave for work

If you genuinely struggle with timekeeping and it is becoming problematic there are many strategies that can help. If it's not a problem and doesn't effect anyone else then it's a non-issue. I just don't buy it that the same things being done every single day takes someone by surprise and they have absolutely no awareness of rough timings.

I have IBS so going to the toilet can be a few seconds or it can be 20 minutes. I don't know in advance when I'll need to go as I'm not one of those who has a shite at the same time every day.

So factor in 20 minutes and then you'll have time for, i don't know, better make up or a nicer hairstyle or something?

I used to commute 1.5 hours on public transport to work, and had 2 small kids to get out of the door just before me. We had "flexitime" and could start between 7 and 9. So i aimed for 7:30 and that was fine. And if i was still late due to public transport then no issue for me. (my boss was another matter) and yet 2 single people, neither of whom had children or other dependents, couldn't ever manage. They were late every day, and in the end one was fired and one resigned before they could be fired. And they had no reason other than faffing around and not getting up early enough. It's a complete lack of respect.

What's a table for one? I've never seen that. The tables where I live go in even numbers: 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. I can't even imagine a table with just one side.

Some cafes I go to have tables that are ostensibly for 2 but because of the layout, or the way other tables are occupied, it would be impossible for two people to comfortably sit at it. Equally some places have a "bar" style set up or larger communal tables where single patrons can sit in the cafe without taking up more places, especially when its busy.

I think it might do you good to get used to being alone in a cafe to be honest. It's a pleasure in itself and there's no need to think about it in terms of wasted money.

I am perfectly happy being alone in a cafe when I choose to go to one. Not when I am only there because someone else wanted to go there. It is not a pleasure if you are not someone who enjoys sitting in a cafe alone waiting indefinitely. I happily walk alone, go shopping alone, eat out alone but that doesn't mean I cant resent being forced to sit somewhere alone when I am supposed to be there with someone.

As for wasted money, I am a single parent earning not much more than minimum wage, I can't afford to just buy overpriced coffee for the sake of it. Going out for coffee with a friend is an expense I am happy to work into my budget as a treat, but I wouldnt routinely go to Costa/Starbucks etc and pay over the odds when I can make the same drink at home. So if my friend leaves me waiting, I will spend money on a coffee that I otherwise wouldnt have bought (so as not to feel awkward taking up a table without actually being a customer), and then when they do turn up I feel obliged to buy another drink/snack so I am not just sitting there watching them drink while I sit there with the dregs of my "waiting" coffee.

"Equally some places have a "bar" style set up or larger communal tables where single patrons can sit in the cafe without taking up more places, especially when its busy."

Oh yeah. I hate those and don't go to those places if I can avoid it.
Fair enough about the budgeting issue. You should ask your friend to cover you next time if he/she does turn up.

What's a table for one? I've never seen that. The tables where I live go in even numbers: 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. I can't even imagine a table with just one side.
I think it might do you good to get used to being alone in a cafe to be honest

Lots of places have tables for one. And I’m absolutely fine on my own - I enjoy my own company, that’s not the issue. The issue is meeting waiting somewhere for the sole purpose of someone who never shows. THAT is what causes me anxiety it’s not just being on my own so please don’t try to twist this into something to do with me because it isn’t. Asking people to be considerate of others is basic human courtesy and respect. It’s not asking too much,

Why should I have to share my financial details with my friends because they are late? I would rather have my one coffee alone and then just go home than ask them to buy me coffee when they do arrive.

I can afford to go out for coffee with them, I just cannot afford to sit over multiple coffees waiting for them. If they are late, I shouldnt have to justify why they need to pay for my second coffee, I will accept the hit to my budget for that occasion and then just not agree to go anywhere where I am effectively paying to wait for them in future.