To have no sympathy for alcoholics?

[Macrometa]

I'm the adult child of one, my life has been nothing but completely miserable because of it.

Today in my home town the newspaper ran a story about an alcoholic man who trespassed into the cancer department late at night. He stole two bottles of alcohol sanitizer from a fridge and drank them, he vomited sick and blood on the floor, urinated on the floor and then ripped down a cubicle curtain. He was found by a frightened cleaner the next morning.

The comments are full of people feeling sorry for the bloke, yet no concern for the cleaner who had to deal with the aftermath or the hospital who are now down on vital supplies and have to pay for repairs.

AIBU to have no sympathy for alcoholics?

They are despicable human beings on the whole.

I've worked with people in Recovery- some of the most honest, humble, intelligent people I've ever met....in active addiction however, not people you would ever want to be around- and they'd be the first to admit that.

Hate the illness, not the person- and it IS an illness (as recognised by the WHO for anyone who questions it).

It has disastrous consequences for everyone involved- but with the right abstinence based recovery programme, can be treated.

That being said, there are still horrendous people in the world, whether they be alcoholics/addicts or not, who destroy lives with or without a substance controlling their actions- there is a difference.

The desperation of drinking hand sanitiser (I knew of someone who did this whilst they were in hospital 5 years ago) surely you can understand this is not the actions of somebody in control but being controlled?

Theres always going to be differing views, it does affect everyone involved- also some people will never enter in to a 12 step programme or a rehab and live a life of denial, destruction and inevitably death.

But some do Recover, there are millions- don't be so quick to judge.

Yanbu.

I used to be as bleeding heart as they come, I really did.

But since the area I live has become so infested with drug dealers I honestly have no time for anyone with addiction problems. They bring entire areas down and destroy families. They are blatant in my area. Police do not care, I rang the police last night because there was a queue of people longer than the Asda fast lane till on Christmas Eve waiting for their fix

I'm actually sat with my bag on my knee waiting for the dealer literally stood on my doorstep to finish up before I can go to the post office to send some of my son's work.

These people are often given every opportunity to receive help, there's plenty out there. And still they choose to live the way they do as it's easier than sorting themselves out. I've every admiration and respect for those that sort themselves out but let's face it, they're a small, minority of people.

And those that aren't living directly with it through no choice of their own have no right to have an opinion on it.

Thank you for seeing past the ugliness of addiction @Taddda - some of us DO get better with the right support and understanding!

I know it's an illness, but I do know how you feel, OP. My FIL was an undiagnosed alcoholic when meant that at times he was incredibly unpleasant. When he retired, he basically spent his days sitting in an armchair, drinking, smoking, reading the Daily Mail, watching crap TV and occasionally shuffling out to the local off-licence to get more supplies. He ate very little but expected MIL to wait on him hand and foot . I remember once going out with them to visit a relative, and as soon as the relative went out of the room he was ferreting around in their cupboards looking for a drink, which was intensely embarrassing. When they came to stay with us once we tried to hide our booze but he found it, and we kept discovering empty bottles hidden around the place - though it did have the benefit of making him comatose for two days which helped to limit his intake a bit. When we visited them, I found it increasingly hard to tolerate his behaviour and even his presence and used to find any excuse to stay out of his way.

Ultimately he died in his 60s of oesophageal cancer which was a direct result of his drinking and smoking. For MiL in many ways it was a massive relief.

In this case I have more sympathy for the cleaner, because they are so underappreciated. But I've become more sympathetic towards alcoholics after my mum became one. She's been clean for a few years, thank G-d. I've been around her when she's been on binges and it's not pretty. She's not abusive or violent, but she gets very weepy and starts rambling on about my dad (who died in 1993) or my aunties or whatever. The nadir was my stepdad's 60th birthday - she conked out at the breakfast table and he and I ended up spending most of the day in hospital. I'm amazed he stayed with her after that, but he is a lovely man and very patient. There were times when I was furious with her and felt so alone and miserable because I didn't know who to turn to, apart from my stepdad as he got the worst of it, but I felt like most of my family didn't want to know, and my brother had cancer and had his own shit to deal with.

As Slashlover says, I love Mum to bits but I hated the way she behaved and I knew if Dad was alive, he'd be furious at her using him as an excuse to just sit around doing fuck all. My brother took it really badly and if anything, he's the reason she's clean now - he came to visit, my stepdad came to pick him up from the station as Mum had been drinking and was too ill, and my brother just went 'fuck this' and went straight back home again. She started taking AA a lot more seriously after that. And I'm glad she did because she herself admits that the current crisis would have been a huge trigger.

One thing I've learned is that you CANNOT change an alcoholic. They have to change themselves, and they have to want to change.

OP I have similarly very bad experiences of alcohol and drug users in my life. I have no sympathy and I don’t understand why I should. If you react badly to alcohol it’s your responsibility to stop before it goes that far. Terrible crimes are committed under the influence and there’s no excuse.

My DD developed a drinking problem after a horrific bereavement in our family. As a mum, it was truly the most ragged time in my life, I cannot describe the desperation I felt 24/7 - a torn mix of love and deep sadness. We stuck by her, we got support for ourselves and she’s on the otherside now. She was 17 when she “fell into” the alcohol trap. People don’t always have a choice - they can be very young, very unaware of the addictive nature of alcohol, and this becomes a handy but dangerous coping strategy. My DD is a trainee doctor now! We couldn’t be more proud of her.

@Macrometa - my father's brother was an alcoholic. He died of it, at the age of 55. It destroyed my Uncle, but also my dad. He won't touch alcohol as a result, hates the stuff. I think alcoholics do despicable things, both to themselves and those around them. And ultimately it's an addiction that does rip everyone apart.

My dad has no tolerance or sympathy for them. I'm not sure what I think - I do agree that individuals are responsible for their own welfare, and really, I do believe it's a choice to self-medicate with excessive alcohol. It's a slippery slope from there. What a place to be in! To want to drink sanitizer fluid. I don't know. It's just awful. Recovery for this man could be very difficult.

OP, I'd just like to add that in this case, I'd definitely say YANBU. You've been on the receiving end of bad behaviour from an alcoholic and it is hard to be sympathetic for them when they make other people's lives a misery. It took me a while to forgive Mum.

@Bakedbrie that's brilliant. I'm glad your daughter is OK now.

In fact i am not sympathetic about it being an illness.
I have zero choice in being ill.....an alcoholic CAN choose to get help........I have no choice.....they can stop drinking.
Yes they are often sensitive, and intelligent but it is an act of self destruction and also damages family relationships.
Alcoholics are selfish however nice they are.

I understand where you’re coming from as I habe a friend who is the child of an alcoholic and it did do some damage, particularly because the other parent put up with it and made the children live through it. As adults they understood the weakness of both parents and viewed it as unforgivable.

I think on balance I have way more sympathy for the child than the alcoholic parent and their partner.

I don’t think saying it’s an illness is Often helpful because it removes all form of personal responsibility in some people’s minds..

If you have any other illness you’re expected to seek help and as you descend through the stages of alcoholism there are stages you know and you can seek that help. You’re still in control. You also know the damage you’re doing to your loved ones. Because you don’t just become an alcoholic over night. It’s not like you have that first ever vodka and it’s game over. You’re suddenly an alcoholic. It takes continued effort to become addicted.

I have no sympathy at all for any alcoholic. I was with an alcoholic partner for several years ,some years ago. I was stupidly trying to help him to seek help,as my attempts became futile eventually. He became abusive when I was trying to help him. He sometimes had a few moments of clarity, and knew he was on a downward spiral. with his health and mindset, but never the less, he would not stop drinking.

I had a GP come to the house once, as he fell over into the bath when trying to use the toilet, and was looking quite unconscious. The doctor was aware of the drink problem. He roused from the fall eventually,and the doctor warned him yet again that all this alcohol would kill him. He then gave me the number of the AA group.. (much too late ) but said he could not do anything to stop the drinking, a person has to do that themselves.

Six months later, he was dead. He had a kind of alcohol dementia, a diseased liver, and was as skinny as a rake,due to not eating, just drinking vodka or whiskey all day long.

He had a lovely home, no money worries.a brand new Range Rover,which he could not drive anymore.

I was quite aware where his drink problem had come from many years before I even met him, and hoped that I could have helped him.But it never happened, and would never attempt to help any such person again.

I have sympathy to a certain extent. It's a horrible addiction, but people are capable of changing with a lot of willpower and effort - they don't want to. I think portraying addicts as victims suits them right down to the ground. That's exactly how they like to cast themselves so they are excused from taking any responsibility for themselves or ownership of the pain and suffering they inflict upon other people.

I sound really horrible and unsympathetic there and I really do have sympathy, particularly when alcohol (or any other substance) is being abused to mask other problems or traumatic experiences, but it is ultimately a choice to continue abusing rather than get help.

One of my parents was an alcoholic. It certainly damaged my life beyond repair actually. That parent did managed to become a 'recovering' alcoholic but only after the damage was done really. The other parent remained in situ, which forced me and my sibling to remain in situ and that other parent allowed a lot of awful things. I can't forgive that parent either.

I do understand how the disease takes hold and how people deny the state they're in/the state they're putting everyone else in, but I don't understand why a non-alcoholic parent would allow their children to be put through it. Absolutely not.

I think the ‘illness’ aspect of addiction is more along the lines of comparable mental health issues - anxiety, obsessive compulsive behaviours, depression etc. All of these issues can devastate lives and hurt others.

Yes, you CAN overcome these with the right treatment and/or support. They are not physical diseases. But you may not be able to just wake up one morning and ‘choose’ to stop being anxious, depressed etc. I think the same goes for alcoholism.

I’m in no way excusing alcoholic behaviour. I’m in AA, facing up to my drinking. Not everyone is able to do that, though. Just like not everyone is able to overcome their mental health issues.

It doesn’t mean you have to sympathise with alcoholics. But I think it is worth pointing out.

when alcohol (or any other substance) is being abused to mask other problems or traumatic experiences

That's what happened to my mum.

I think it depends on a lot of things. Individual sympathy is very different to me than social-level sympathy for the issues that we've known for decades now raises the risks it like homelessness, early repeated exposure, familial and community encouragement, and so on. It's be nice if prevention of alcohol addiction was as acceptable to talk about as smoking, but sadly it doesn't seem we're there yet on a society level.

Oversimplifying it yeah, but for me it's similar to the smoking example from Inextremis, the old & quiet user from before we had a lot of the research into it, where they feel it's one of the few pleasures they have left, I do feel for them. Those who are trying and struggling to reduce their use and/or its impact on others with trauma and limited resources yes.

The violent person who thinks their drinking or other drug use can be used to excuse their horrible behaviour, the user who thoroughly enjoys both their own use and in trying to push others to do the same, no. I see no reason to feel more sympathy for them that someone who does the same shit without drink or drugs. It may lower inhibitions, but it doesn't change who someone is as much as popular narratives like to suggest.

I may not entirely agree with the paedophiles comparison, but many addict parents push their drug(s) of choice onto kids and others, abuse kids and others, kill kids and others, so yeah, the question has some merit. In the same way, adults and communities who turn a blind eye when they know it's happening get my ire. I've seen 11 year olds blackout drunk with no repercussions for the parents because 'kids will be kids' ignoring where they got the drink, I've seen little kids given alcohol in quantity because it's 'funny' and 'they have to start sometime', as a kid I had to protect my drinks from my own family and I had to deal with dozens of adults refuse to stop my obviously intoxicated mother from forcing me into a car for reasons I will never understand. I nearly died that night, she wanted me to die that night, but ~she's going through a hard time, you have to be understanding~. No, I don't. It doesn't help anyone if I try to be sympathetic and understanding about people like her.

Like the old saying goes, if you are kind to the cruel, you will end up being cruel to the kind.

I think addictions are a illness, but any adult with an illness, especially if it impacts on those around them, is responsible for seeking help and a cure.

Oh dear, I have to give up smoking on doctor's orders and haven't done a damn thing about it yet. Hypocrite much.

I don't know , I feel quite sad for the guy that he's that desperate for alcohol he will steal and drink sanitizer. That's a addiction and it's out of control so most definitely needs help.
Saying that if more people realise that they had alcohol problems before it spiralled and got help .
It must also be terrible living with someone like that and you must loose all sympathy as I'm sure a lot of people have had help they just choose not to except it sometimes.

I think portraying addicts as victims suits them right down to the ground. That's exactly how they like to cast themselves so they are excused from taking any responsibility for themselves or ownership of the pain and suffering they inflict upon other people.

This is insightful, I think alchoholics often have a poor little me, victim mindset separate from the addiction. The fucker in my family was dry for a few years, but always felt hard done to, even though they had actually had a pretty easy life. Fell off the wagon in the end and my mum is in lockdown with an abusive alchoholic with Korskoffs and Alzheimers. But hey, he's the victim, right?

Alcoholism doesn't just happen overnight, some people are predisposed to it, and people often develop alcoholism due to trauma. Self medication if they can't get the help they need. So yes, we need to be sympathetic

However, that doesn't make toxic and violent behaviours okay. They have consequences. Right now it's going to be even harder for someone to get the help they need, and anyone caught in the crossfire of someone on the throes of any kind of addiction are going to find it hard to have any sympathy.

Alcoholism is a genuine disease like any other form of addiction. It provokes anger because people don't understand that you just can't stop drinking. It's the one substance that can kill you if you go cold turkey.

Alcoholics do play victim, yes. They are people who aren’t coping with difficult emotions and aren’t taking responsibility for the part they play in their own unhappiness. That’s what feeds their alcoholism. Recognising that is the start of recovery. I say that as an alcoholic.

Excellent post @Whataloadofshite - spot on.

The thing is it does take time to become an addict, before you’re physically and mentally addicted. It’s not like smoking, or heroin.

There are I think four stages of alcoholism. And it’s not like you shoot through the stages in a week, or even a month, until you get to that stage you’re addicted physically and mentally you’ve been abusing alcohol for a long time.

And for me, that’s when you know, when you know you’re drinking too much, when you know you have a problem, when you know you have a family and you know you need to cut back, slow down, get help..

Once you’re there it’s harder, but getting there is not quick. It takes abusing alcohol for a long time, without an addiction, through choice.

Like the old saying goes, if you are kind to the cruel, you will end up being cruel to the kind.

I had never heard that saying but it does ring true. The amount of people killed by drink drivers. Alchoholics will drive drunk - they drink and they are selfish, of course they will. It is a miracle my Mum's husband never killed anyone. And she knew he was doing it. And she couldn't stop him. And we had to tell our children they must never, never accept a lift from grandad, even if granny is in the car. Yes, that saying certainly rings true.