To have no sympathy for alcoholics?

[Macrometa]

I'm the adult child of one, my life has been nothing but completely miserable because of it.

Today in my home town the newspaper ran a story about an alcoholic man who trespassed into the cancer department late at night. He stole two bottles of alcohol sanitizer from a fridge and drank them, he vomited sick and blood on the floor, urinated on the floor and then ripped down a cubicle curtain. He was found by a frightened cleaner the next morning.

The comments are full of people feeling sorry for the bloke, yet no concern for the cleaner who had to deal with the aftermath or the hospital who are now down on vital supplies and have to pay for repairs.

AIBU to have no sympathy for alcoholics?

French I completely agree re the children. I got involved with a guy from na and ended it when I discovered he was in a relationship. What got to me most that he had used cocaine around his children and yet it was his partner's fault she was pissed off, apparently.

I'm an addict myself and no better than anyone. But when you've a child, all bets are off. When you've a child your priorities should change. If you've gotten clean and then use because you want to, because yiuve a mental craving and not physical agony,and you're a parent ... then you're not a bloody good one. Yes addiction is hard and horrible. Yes when you're in it its fucking hard to stop. But when I stop for a while and relapse, I make a conscious choice to do so and risk everything for a bit of a high. And it's only me I'm harming. When you've got children that's an entirely different ballgame and it is so so selfish

I identify with resenting the complicit parent too. My mam had mental health issues, not addiction. She emotionally and physically abused me from age 7 to age 24. Dad may not have known about the physical at the start but he did later and he knew about the emotional. Yet he never got involved, saying 'hed leave us to it'and stay out of it. Fine, I'm an adult now. I wasnt all those years ago. I get that he was scared of mam, I do. But he was an adult, a grown man. However hard it would have been, he should have stepped in. He had the opportunity to protect his child and chose bot to because he was too scared and gutless himself. And the worst thing is, man has MH issues. I know that. But theres absolutely no excuse for him. He was the nicer parent, who bought me books and comforted me and showed me some kindness. Yet he still did not step in and protect me from years of abuse. And for that I doubt I will ever forgive him

And yes, the stigma around addiction prevented me from getting support for a long time. I was ashamed. I was intelligent, with a good job and a functional life yet I had taken something so often that my body refused to work without it. I wasnt like a heroin addict I'd tell myself. I couldn't be, could I? I just needed to snap out of it. I felt more at home in the role of support staff not service user. I wore a lanyard and smart work clothes to every single appointment. Sometimes I got a taxi if I was running late. Every single the time the driver asked if I'd had a good shift, even without my lanyard on. They automatically assumed I was staff. That just made me feel more like a feud, hypocrite and out of place. Even in NA, someone said 'you dont look like us, you look normal". He was told off by an old timer, but that stuck with me. I clearly stick out, even when I dont dress up. And if he thinks i look different, how many others think it? And do i really belong there?

As someone who has lost their partner to alcoholism, it isn't a lifestyle choice, you don't wake up one morning & think today I'm going to be an alcoholic. Most alcoholics have something that has affected their mental health during their life, childhood trauma, abuse, death of a family member, divorce. They don't drink because they want to, they drink because they have to. My partner would get up to go to the loo during the night, go in the fridge & have a drink before getting back in bed so that he wouldn't have the shakes when he woke up next morning. Drink came before everything, me, his kids, his family, his health. I watched him die from cirrhosis, it isn't pretty watching someone who you love drown as their lungs fill up with blood. It was as if I had met two men, the quiet, funny, gentle one & the drunken monster he became, it was like a long drawn out death scene where we would have snatched moments when he was the man I loved before the monster took over again. But much as he was a monster, I still loved him because I knew that the man I fell in love with was still inside somewhere.

nat I am so sorry for your loss and your experience 💓

Dying of cirrhosis is a terrible way to go, I watched a cousin die of it. Sad.

Alcoholic with almost six years of clear-headed sobriety. This is my experience.

You don't do us any favours by coddling us or pitying us. We are self-centered, conniving, manipulative people who have chosen alcohol as the solution to our misery. Our only concern is alcohol and we don't give a shit about anyone or anything if it gets in our way. We are the only ones who can diagnose ourselves and decide to get help.

We have to admit and truly reject our narcissism before we can ever recover. More than sympathy (which is always enabling), we need tough love and firm ultimatums. We will never face our demons if we have the crutch of alcohol.

My demons used to terrify me and I really thought I would die without alcohol. I am still here and thriving.

for I dont think sympathy and kindness is always enabling though. My uni friends (I use the term loosely as there was some bullying there) tried to tough love stance. All it did was make my efforts not to drink seem pointless, make me even more isolated and alone and taking painkillers to try and cope.

My best friend has stuck with me throughout addiction without enabling. Never once given me money or agreed with my bull that what I was doing was ok. She has however been a kind and supportive person.

Removing yourself from an addict can be necessary. But I honestly dont think that tough love is the only answer, ir that support equals enabling

Well done on 6yrs

20Madein our experiences sound really similar. My first day in the rehab clinic I looked around and reassured myself I don't belong here. I have a job and a social life and a house and pay my bills! Took me about 3 minutes with my new keyworker to realise I was exactly the same as everyone else in there and very much needed to be there.

Jesus christ, educate yourselves on addictions.

I agree with you, i excluded my liver, lungs and kidneys after i die from my organ donation, my family and gp are aware if the person who needs these at the time isnt an alcoholic or a smoker, i'm happy for them to take it, but default is no... I have no sympathy for alcoholics/smokers what so ever... It all starts by choice...

Jesus christ, educate yourselves on addictions.

This, with bells on.

Do people have the same sympathy for smokers who also suffer addiction? Or are they seen more as disgusting?

Thanks @Macrometa and @TitianaTitsling

I might look up those Facebook groups. I only talk about it on here. I've got 1 friend who knows. I'm sure others do but we don't talk about it.

Counselling has definitely helped. I get irrationally annoyed at the posts on MN which are 'but family is family' etc etc. Ignorance is bliss and I guess I'm just jealous I never had a 'proper' family.

I've decided not to have kids for a number of reasons but one of them is because of my upbringing.

Anyway, today is a new day. It's been good to talk on here so thank you op.

You can be an alcoholic and be pleasant, law abiding etc. Or you can be an alcoholic and be an utter fucking arsehole. I'm not sure that's entirely true.

The pleasant law abiding drunk also has a negative impact on their family, from the money spent on their drink to the times they are absent (in mind if not body) from family occasions, to the inevitable arguments about being drunk, not participating etc. The amiable drunk is what the outside world sees. No family knows that person, that amiable public face is just the start of yet another time of apprehension, fear and loathing!

It's not about alcoholism being like anorexia etc. It isn't. It is completely different and does no alcoholi, anorexic, bulemic, smoker etc, any favours to say they could/should be viewed the same. To do so is to look at the effects and not hunt for the cause.

As forsucksfake says, the level of sheer self absorbption of alcoholics is different, has none of the same causes and none of the same cures as the other conditions mentioned.

Jesus christ, educate yourselves on addictions. Without wanting to mirror your accidental mic drop Tadda I am, through experience, through formal education, through working with various addiction rehab programmes. So I know there are many ways of approaching all addictions. I never did understand the ones that start from the logic that they are all a disease and the addict has no control... always seemed self defeating. Starting from the point that the addict has choices to make, right now, forever, for their own reasons, not those of family and friends, always made more sense to me.

But I am aware that no one route is generally more or less successful than another.

@Everdreamer1990 a smoker doesn't change personality and become violent, a smoker doesn't spend every last penny on cigarettes, a smoker doesnt lie and manipulate, a smoker doesn't fall in a gutter helpless and covered in urine, a smoker may well become ill but their impact on other people's lives is much less than drinking. They can smoke outside away from others.
I have never smoked btw.

Coffeecak-

A smoker absolutely does spend their last penny on cigarettes.

So I know there are many ways of approaching all addictions. I never did understand the ones that start from the logic that they are all a disease and the addict has no control...

There's a big difference here-

An addict in addiction has no control over their disease- they of course have control over seeking and accepting help and most importantly control over changing themselves and accepting they cannot drink, use substances or engage in any behaviour that may feed their addiction.

Their not void responsibility, infact that responsibility is solely theirs and needs to be understood in its entirety in order for them to get well.

Starting from the point that the addict has choices to make, right now, forever, for their own reasons, not those of family and friends, always made more sense to me.

That's what a 12 step programme will help them achieve. But as I said above and previously, it starts with them. Sometimes it is necessary to walk away from an addict to make them even recognise this.

Fwiw also I have rarely met a person in Recovery who would ask for sympathy (different from somebody in addiction who would likely feed off this). I've met an awful lot who would ask for understanding and forgiveness, nearly all suffering with immense feelings of guilt and shame over their past. Making amends (a very difficult part of the 'step' process, if not the most) is essential.

I'd hope that if anyone affected by this now was to reach a point where their family member/friend was to achieve this stage in their recovery they would be able to listen to this- forgiveness in certain aspects is too much to ask initially, but it might just enable a healing process for all involved.

@forsucksfake....congratulations on your lasting sobriety. I’ve read posters on this with interest. A couple of observations from our own very painful experience; one poster said they felt it took a while to become physically and psychologically addicted to alcohol. Well, our experience was that it was terrifyingly fast! My DD17 started secretly drinking huge amounts of vodka and within a month had a full on physical addiction; sweats, anxiety, getting up in the night to drink, drinking in the morning, uncontrollable craving, lying the lot. It was like taking to a zombie. I saw her, I recognised her, but the person inside had been totally hijacked by the need for alcohol. So heartbreaking. I couldn’t believe this could be so quick, but several helpful alcoholics at AA confirmed that, yes, this can happen.

I don’t think of my DD as a selfish narcissist. She’s actually a fab, kind person; a trainee doctor. But the alcohol produced behaviours and a level of deceit in her over and over which I and others didn’t recognise. But that’s what any substance addiction does. I agree that change can only come from the person themselves, no amount of pleading from others works. But I do think the sore and painful memory of the hurt and damage done to loved ones serves as motivation not to relapse.

But I do think the sore and painful memory of the hurt and damage done to loved ones serves as motivation not to relapse.

Congratulations on your Dd's Recovery, you sound like a wonderfully supportive and understanding parent!

You are right in your statement regarding motivation not to relapse, remembering the hurt and damage it caused is important-

What I would be wary of is the guilt and shame aspect that can grow out of this.

Meetings are important for this reason, it gives an open, non judgemental stage to air feelings of past consequences and actions without it being a constant in every day life. Walk in, share, leave it there...

I'd also say that a recovering addict doesn't need to be reminded - encouraged to talk, yes, but not in a 'remember when you did x,y,z'...

People who have achieved Recovery should be allowed a life after, always mindful, but not reminded.

@Coffeecak3 I'm not defending alcoholics a post I put on a few pages ago I was explaining that I had to cut off my ex best friend due to being a nasty alcoholic. she was awful to me and treated me horrendously saving up getting arrested for drink driving tried to leave the scene twice when the police turned up.

I don't really have a lot of sympathy for alcoholics I did initially for her and over that 10 years but I tried to help her she didn't want to help herself.

I'm an ex-smoker gave up a year ago so I was just wondering all the people on here that seems to have sympathy for alcoholics whatever have sympathy for smokers as well as the saying addiction is the mental health issue.

both smoking and alcoholism have an effect on the person with the addiction and those around them I just don't understand how they both seen differently. it seems you can have sympathy for an alcoholic but not sympathy for a smoker despite both of them being able to harm and potentially kill those around them

Sorry for any typos in that post office make sense. I'm having to use talk to type as I'm holding a 12-week old at the moment

Post doesn't make sense. Not post office. Rubbish technology

The pleasant law abiding drunk also has a negative impact on their family, from the money spent on their drink to the times they are absent (in mind if not body) from family occasions, to the inevitable arguments about being drunk, not participating etc. The amiable drunk is what the outside world sees. No family knows that person, that amiable public face is just the start of yet another time of apprehension, fear and loathing!

This!!!! Thank you @CuriousaboutSamphire

My dad at first was a fun drunk. Any occasion. I have real issues around birthdays and Christmas even today because of that. To others he was just harmless at that point. To me as a child, I was anxious about how he would be that day, would he burn the food, could he light my birthday candles, could he remember how old I even was, would he embarrass me in front of my friends. Everything was about him.

Alcoholism also isn't static so 'harmless' drunks do spiral.

I agree with you to a certain extent, I'm the daughter of an alcoholic so I do understand.
I feel a certain sense of sorrow for anyone trapped in an addiction, I understand the feeling of being so broken that theres nothing you can do to feel better, except rely on something that changes your feelings and perception of life, to make it all more bearable.
That is where my sympathy stops though.
You cannot go through life, fucking up others realities to get your own way.

Every time I read someone saying Alcoholism is a disease I just think that is abdicating responsibility.
From what PP's have put it seems that a lot of drinking alcohol does indeed change your body to become addicted and then I understand it is hard to stop drinking.
But if you truly understood the pain and distress of living with an illness that takes away your ability to live without pain and without needing 24 hour care you might see the other point of view.
In my experience alcoholics don't want the pain of going through the process of geting off their addiction.
But so much money is spent by the NHS and Social Services on Addicts when people like myself get the least help.
Why is that?
That a person can claim DLA for being an alcoholic is ridiculous.

Every time I read someone saying Alcoholism is a disease I just think that is abdicating responsibility

But it is a disease. It’s a severe mental illness. If it was treated as such - and not as a lifestyle choice - then perhaps there wouldn’t be so many lives ruined as collateral damage.

Nobody wants to be an addict. Part of the nature of the disease is that it turns the addict into a lying, destructive, manipulator.