To have no sympathy for alcoholics?

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I'm the adult child of one, my life has been nothing but completely miserable because of it.

Today in my home town the newspaper ran a story about an alcoholic man who trespassed into the cancer department late at night. He stole two bottles of alcohol sanitizer from a fridge and drank them, he vomited sick and blood on the floor, urinated on the floor and then ripped down a cubicle curtain. He was found by a frightened cleaner the next morning.

The comments are full of people feeling sorry for the bloke, yet no concern for the cleaner who had to deal with the aftermath or the hospital who are now down on vital supplies and have to pay for repairs.

AIBU to have no sympathy for alcoholics?

RUOKHon unfortunately people have their own opinions very often without any research
There are selected mental illnesses that are acceptable in society
If I said I had depression or anxiety there is a good chance that nobody would tell me that’s my own choice get a grip I don’t understand depression is it just self absorption. Well following the logic on views of alcoholism it probably is . Except perhaps I have taken the time to read a little about it and get an understanding

But alchoholics lie, cheat steal, abuse, are violent, drive drunk and kill people. That is not a mental illness making them do that. No one is making them do that. If you get in a car drunk and kill someone then you committed that crime. If you neglect your children, then you were a neglectful parent. If you lie to your family then you are a lier. Not a disease. Not an addiction. You, the person taking the action.

Alchoholics will do anything to wriggle out of personal responsibility.
You can see it on this thread. Society is to blame. It is other peoples fault for making us feel shame and guilt. No. Own your despicable actions and stop expecting everyone else to excuse you because you are an alchoholic.

I mean it takes a really fucked up mind to do all of that so yes I do feel sorry for them. My best mates mum was an alcoholic who died because of it and she still has sympathy for alcoholics.

I can't imagine being driven to such extremes by addiction.

But alchoholics lie, cheat steal, abuse, are violent, drive drunk and kill people.

I did used to lie to cover up the amount I was drinking but didn’t do any of the others. No one on this thread has said that society is to blame, or that other people have made us feel shame and guilt. In fact, plenty of posters have tried to explain how and why they developed an addiction. That doesn’t fit your preconception though so you’re choosing to ignore it.

Thanks @Taddda. We don’t remind her, we don’t want to remind her - it hurts us too. But we know the guilt is there because we see it in her actions - she is eager to give us receipts for small stuff. Once the trust is damaged it takes a long time to heal.
I think we recognised that some people are predisposed to addiction - any addiction actually. My daughter was depressed, sought help from CAMHS and never got it. Alcohol became her self medication. I feel to this day that it’s too cheap, too accessible, too glamorised and should cost more and have a ugly big health warning plastered all over it!
There is a BBC Radio 5 Live series called “Hooked” available by 2 recovered addicts called Jade and Melissa. I would encourage anyone who is interested in the psychology of addiction to listen to it.

But alchoholics lie, cheat steal, abuse, are violent, drive drunk and kill people. That is not a mental illness making them do that.*

I mean, the whole point of mental illness is that it affects how people act, and normally in a way that makes it harder to engage with society. I have schizoaffective bipolar disorder and when I've been manic I've had inappropriate sexual relationships, I've thrown and broken things and said some totally insane things to people.

It wasn't like I woke up and thought 'yeah, today I'm going to break every plate in the house because they are tainted by the evil that's been here and make my husband pay for more, because that'll be a laugh'. I was unwell. Same for alcoholics.

Like I said, protect yourself if you have to from an alcoholic and maybe judge them for not even trying to seek treatment etc, but accept that it's not a choice that someone has made for kicks.

I would also add that my DD was drinking, self harming and suicidal - all in tandem. She didn’t like herself, her life or what she was doing but before help came the addiction becomes a sort of powerlessness and I think it felt like it was the only thing she had to turn to. I think when a person is caught up like this, the morals just go out the window. In fact they become warped and I recall sitting and listening to a lot of twisted rationale and logic. The person just isn’t themselves and I agree with previous pp about that being the nature of mental illness. I’m not saying that abdicates all personal responsibility for wreckless behaviour, but this is not and black & white issue IMO.

For those who are interested.....good lockdown listening and they are both fantastic broadcasters too!
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07q3jb7/episodes/player

I think addiction is different from mental illness. But dual diagnosis is common.
There is obviously an element of poor choices at the onset of alcohol dependence followed by psychological dependence then if heavy prolonged regular intake physical addiction.

Again the addiction and the acts taken are almost different. I do empathise for the addiction, that doesn't mean I think drink driving is ok. I'm not a victim of dihydrocodeine. Dihydrocodeine by itself will not leap off the shelf and ram itself down my throat. I make a choice and a decision to use it. I have so many service users claim they are a victim of alcohol. I generally ask them 'did the bottle of vodka leap off the shelf in asda, jump into your hand and thrie itself down your throat' . I pawned my baby jewelry to get drugs, I stole msms drugs, I lied and cheated and manipulated like fjck. I didnt rob banks or shoplift though. And part of that is s choice. Because I remember rattling waiting for a delivery to come and thinking I could go into boots and steal some cocodamol. As soon as I thought it I rubbished it. Although I would have prostituted myself,as I did phone sex work and I looked into escorting

You cannot be sectioned for alcoholism fir treatment due to the persons right to make poor choices and it not being an actual mental illness.
You can only be sectioned if you develop alcohol related dementia if you danger to self.

You can only be sectioned if you develop alcohol related dementia if you danger to self.

Or other people?

SIL's husband is in permanent residential care because he has alcohol related dementia. He wasn't sectioned though.

Of course other people too. Yes sectioning only needed when there is conflict about safety eg someone at home not able to care fir themselves / v vulnerable / risky behaviour and also the dementia.

And won't agree to any change

as a recovering alcoholic, and the daughter of a not recovering alcoholic, I think you are well within your rights to feel angry and irritated by this persons behaviour. as has been said it’s easy to give theorectical sympathy, however much harder when the behaviour is hurting you or others or is as outrageous as this example. I believe alcoholism is a mental illness but i also believe the tools are there for those who are ready for help. we don’t help addicts by excusing or enabling them

@TheNavigator
I hear what you are saying. however as a recovering alcoholic I would like to say not all alcoholics are the same. I am a good mum, a responsible employee and citizen, and i take full responsibility for my recovery. yes active addicts can be sneaky,lying, stealing horrors but just be mindful that some of us have chosen to recover and fight our addiction ( my ex and my father are both alcoholics who have not sought recovery so i can totally understand your anger at this element)

My feelings on this are a little mixed, although on balance I come down on the side of the OP.

My BIL is an alcoholic and along with DH and my PIL I witnessed a lot of his very worst behaviour. It could be very frightening, and I am aware that for every incident we did witness there will have been many more that we didn't. We were always on eggshells around him and the atmosphere was always much more relaxed when he wasn't there.

DH has very little contact with him now since their parents have both died.

I have always been apprehensive when in BIL's company. I just don't like it. I'm afraid of his behaviour and very uncomfortable with it.

I do try to maintain a vestige of sympathy for him in my own mind because I am aware that the alcoholism is a symptom of his significant mental health issues. That doesn't mean that I can actually cope with him for any great length of time though.

i have also born the brunt of an alcoholic and no i have no sympathy YANBU. it's a very.. selfish disease.

Watch the posts by baked
The presenters are fabulous and I'm sure itll knock some empathy into some people

@mummylondon16 well done for your recovery, especially as your father was an alcoholic so you cannot have had an easy ride. I am just embittered because my mum's husband (I refuse to call him my stepfather) has in many ways ruined my life and continues to dominate it as I support my mum living with an abuser with dementia. I cannot see clearly on this issue, I am the first to admit, and any alcoholic, recovering or otherwise, trying to blame others for their behaviour is a red flag for me. But I wish you all the best for your recovery, I know it isn't not an easy road to travel.

I used to feel the same as you OP. My mum is was an alcoholic too and I used to feel annoyed and angry rather than sympathy.
She died a few years ago and over time my view has shifted more in to sympathy rather than anger. Maybe it is rose tinted glasses now that I don’t have to deal with her behaviour.
It is an awful illness.

@TheNavigator
I totally sympathise, I have recently moved back to my family home, and my fathers behaviour is awful ( mental illness and untreated alcoholism). i’m extremely angry about how he’s treated/treating my mum, and the damage he’s done to her and me. doing the AA steps has helped me somewhat with this, but it’s an ongoing effort to address. Al anon may be helpful for you?
good luck x

There’s a vast difference between a recovering alcoholic and an active alcoholic.

The very fact that someone refers to themselves as a “recovering” alcoholic is a clear sign that they recognise the destructiveness of their addiction and will always be addicted but have removed themselves from that which they are addicted to. And with that recognition comes acknowledgement of their previously destructive behaviours.

But active alcoholics are selfish, lying,cheating, often violent despicable members of society who will stop at nothing to get what they want i.e. that next drink. Being mentally ill in any way does not excuse horrible behaviour, and we need to get past this notion that we should have sympathy because they can’t help it. They chose to drink. There will have come a point when they weren’t drinking to excess. The fact they then didn’t stop is their choice,and now they’re past that point but it doesn’t change the fact that it is self inflicted.

And we need to stop glamorising alcohol. Talk of “wine o’clock” and “happy hour,” just feed into the notion that alcohol is normal and should be indulged. In fact I’ve seen threads on here from posters saying they wouldn’t date someone if they were teetotal.

And we need to stop glamorising alcohol. Talk of “wine o’clock” and “happy hour,” just feed into the notion that alcohol is normal and should be indulged. I must admit, I cringe at this stuff and I just don’t get the humour in it at all. I do think drinking often starts with an untreated or unresolved mental illness. In our case, an inability or safe outlet in which to express vulnerable feelings - an actually I see that as a very common theme with drinkers. The drink initially is helpful, it numbs all those hard to deal with feelings. But what quickly happens is the addiction sneaks in. I remember a lot of mental health workers wanting to get to the bottom of why my DD drank. Of course, its good to do this but after a while compulsive addiction just takes over. You can ask a drinker why they drank and they don’t know why or they can’t answer why....that’s a very scary moment. I think my DD realised that she no longer wanted to be controlled by the alcohol and she did seek and accept support, but it wasn’t easy. I think she probably learnt a lot about having an addictive personality - not just with alcohol but it can be a load of other ‘poisons’ - food, gaming even toxic relationships.

What an awful story. There was alcoholism in my family so I know it’s shit for everyone involved. But- I do think of the avoidant / self harm thought processes masking earlier trauma that cause someone to continue to drink and then the spiral addiction to the substance causes. It’s a crying shame and a wasted life.