To have no sympathy for alcoholics?

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I'm the adult child of one, my life has been nothing but completely miserable because of it.

Today in my home town the newspaper ran a story about an alcoholic man who trespassed into the cancer department late at night. He stole two bottles of alcohol sanitizer from a fridge and drank them, he vomited sick and blood on the floor, urinated on the floor and then ripped down a cubicle curtain. He was found by a frightened cleaner the next morning.

The comments are full of people feeling sorry for the bloke, yet no concern for the cleaner who had to deal with the aftermath or the hospital who are now down on vital supplies and have to pay for repairs.

AIBU to have no sympathy for alcoholics?

Alcoholism is a disease not a choice. It is very narrow minded to think that. It is a physical allergy, mental obsession and spiritual malody

I think the world splits into two groups. Those 'supporting' and those 'needing support'.

Those needing support can be the very worthy and blameless, ie people with cancer or the bereaved. Or they can be unworthy and entirely responsible for their own actions, such as alcoholics and drug addicts. Some fall somewhere between the two.

The unworthy ones ruin not only their own lives, but the lives of everyone around them. Not to mention the huge burden on the NHS and social services. And also the public who suffer burglaries, thieving, random violence and antisocial behaviour at the hands of addicts. I used to live next to a dive pub and there was no end to the broken glass, empty bottles, condoms and even stained underwear I found outside my front door every Saturday and Sunday morning.

They are happy to let everyone else prop them up and look after them, they cause untold misery to their families and burden public services.

For those saying they need support and for people to be nice to them, why should 5 or 6 or 7 people suffer for the happiness of one individual who chooses to drink? Where is the logic in that? And even then there is no guarantee the addict will change, all that effort is frequently for nothing.

rosie1959 I guess it was easy for me not to drink after an awful incident a good few years ago. If I did drink again, I think it would take me back to that painful place. I guess I associate alcohol with that trauma. I

I'm pleased you've come out of it

So am I BlackRussian and keep on being t total the easier option

I don't understand why people say " oh it's an illness" by those standards being obese because you are addicted to food is an illness. I think that saying it's an illness rather than an choice is taking the responsibility away from the the alcoholic." Oh don't worry about behaving like a complete Tosser because it's not your fault it's an illness"

Truly mental health and addiction is stigmatised and how. If a poster came out with the same virulent judgment on people with certain cancers, diabetes, weight related issues - all arguably Self induced - and wrote them off in the same way, posters would be ripping them To shreds and MNHQ intervening. And rightly so

I am judgmental of people with diabetes that drink coca cola, etc. Though most of the diseases you mentioned do not affect the people around them. I believe that adults that do not seek a solution for their problem should not expect others to put up with it.

This is not an uncurable disease, there is plenty of help available.

wewillmeetagain I suppose in the same way I don’t understand depression I have never been through it But is that an illness

@wewillmeetagain people suffer with binge eating disorders so yes, that's an illness too. People have sympathy for anorexics and bulemics but not the opposite end of the spectrum apparently.

And yes before you say so, some people are just greedy.

Obesity is a disease, quite often rooted in poverty too.

For those saying they need support and for people to be nice to them, why should 5 or 6 or 7 people suffer for the happiness of one individual who chooses to drink? Where is the logic in that? And even then there is no guarantee the addict will change, all that effort is frequently for nothing

So....we should just do nothing to help addicts?

I think that it would be easy for people to say that it is an ilness and an addiction ( which is true) and behave sympathetically when they have had a life where this hasn't been an issue. My neighbour is an alcoholic and died on Christmas eve last year in a pool of his own vomit on the floor of his house. To use he was vulnerable and we would often put him back in his house after finding him on the street. Hos sister now lives in the house and has renovated the whole thing. To her he was reportedly awful and once hit their elderly mum. I think it must be shit being brought up by alcoholic parents and very frightening.

if your predisposed to it, it will have you from the get go, mentally and physically.

The highest I've ever seen the genetic component as a factor in raising the risks of addiction is 8%. There may be some studies that put it higher, but no, having a predisposition doesn't mean it has someone from the get go at all. I don't think that's any more helpful to children of addicts than the whole myth that abusers are all child abuse victims.

Plenty of us are raised with the 'oh we're just drinkers around here' bullshit. Recognizing the community influence is a major part of the risk factors is important to helping prevent the behaviours that lead to alcoholism. Far better is done when kids are taught their risk factors and how to lower them than blaming it all on biology like nurture and choice have nothing to do with it.

It still baffles me that people see addiction as a choice, its prolonged suicide, not a 'jolly up'.

When you have addicts who not only seem to enjoy their addictions, but actively encourage it in others in their community including onto children, yeah, I can see why some could see that behaviour as a choice. We could debate whether free will exists and how preconscious choice making works, but even with self-destructive actions, there are limits to how sympathetic we can be before we're causing more harm than good, especially on an individual level.

On a societal level, being sympathetic might spur some people to do things to help reduce the harm addictions have, but I don't think it's required or the most helpful. A lot of harm reduction work come out of personal experience, grief, academic interest in the area, and many other things.

I’m on the fence really op, but I do see where you’re coming from.

When you have to live with the ramifications day in dat out as a child it makes you feel like you weren’t enough to stop them drinking.

One of my parents was a closet alcoholic but no one ever really acknowledged it. I’m sure because a- they worked still so were a ‘functioning alcoholic’ and b- they didn’t fit the stereotypical perception of one.

Some of my family members would buy my parent more drink (I’m talking bottles of strong spirits) and I’d be raging with them because they could walk away and didnt need to live with it. I felt they were making it worse.

It was awful and tore my family apart (although to be fair, the other parent was a dick in all honestly so it’s no wonder one of them did drink so much)

I suppose that’s why I’m on the fence. I totally get it’s shit living with one and having to deal with the crap that comes with it. For my parent it was an escape and whilst I do get frustrated and annoyed that I was robbed of a proper parent, I also can see how the life they led could making drinking easy.

I do think they need to want to get better and without that they can’t move forward.

being sympathetic might spur some people to do things to help reduce the harm addictions have, but I don't think it's required or the most helpful

It could certainly help some people feel like it's easier to ask for help. 👍🏻 That thing about admitting your problem being one of the hardest bits certainly is true - not just because you know you've now got to face it head on but also knowing in society's eyes you're the scummiest of scumbags.

Just wondering do people have sympathy for people suffering from eating disorders for example Anorexia this is also a choice

Oh I’m sire you’ll have posters saying it’s all vanity and all they need to do is put food in their mouth and swallow like all an alcoholic needs to do is not put alcohol on their mouth

Alcholism is an addiction and addiction is a mental illness, that part of it is very simple. It is not a disease in the sense that the body is invaded by a bacteria or virus caught from somewhere, or cells behave abnormally as in cancer, or the endocrine system malfunctions as in a hormonal imbalance. Addiction is a mental illness, not a disease.

Anyone who is addicted to anything can give that up and live a better life - see all the proof of recovering addicts quietly going about their business all around you every day.

When the addict in your life fails to get their head around it and give it up then that is horrible. So you might well be very angry about it and think "Well if Barry Humphries, or Anne Robinson, or Robert Downey Junior can sort themselves out, why can't my Mum or Dad or the person who broke into the hospital and drank hand sanitiser give it up and recover?".

Some addicts can do it and some can't. But the ones who can't aren't evil, heinous people. They just let themselves and their loved ones down - and their loved ones are of course very well within their rights to disown them for that.

Well consider if you choose to smoke cannabis, that's a definite free willed choice.
People choose to drink alcohol, it's a choice and recreational ' drug'. At some point the choice goes and physical addiction can begin. There is still choice but the person cannot see clearly through intoxication until dried out. If they refuse help and want to continue drinking, it's their choice. So on many ways it is send inflicted for many people, but in many ways it is also kore complicated than that when it takes hold. But it's addiction, not a disease.

The recovery group I went to (not AA) always said it's not a disease

They were wrong (was it a SMART meeting?)- if it was they also tell alcoholics that they can drink 'in moderation', nonsense.

There's some overlapping hidden agreements amongst the arguments.

An active alcoholic will look for any excuse to drink, using lines such as 'I'm an alcoholic so I must drink'.

An alcoholic in a successful abstinence
based Recovery programme will say 'I'm an alcoholic so I can't drink'

The difference is in getting people in to Recovery- which is so difficult when you can't get someone to even admit to themselves they have a problem- stigma & judgement leads to denial.

Usually, unless they are surrounded by some pretty resilient people, some of which make the right (but so difficult) choice in walking away, it takes some awful consequences and a terrible Rock bottom to get them there.

@rosie1959 brought up a very good point using Anorexia as an example. Do you see this as a disease or a choice? Both are killing themselves through disordered thinking, an inability to stop without help, both are potentially fatal?

Also, how would you react to your child if this was them?

There was an inspirational post by a mother up thread who spotted this in her young daughter, got her the help she needed and is now training as a Junior Doctor.

There's obviously alot of hurt on this thread, understandably so- but surely the cycle stops with Mothers like this, education, support, identification and more (much more) understanding.

I used to work with people in recovery, as I mentioned up thread,

I used to work with people in recovery, as I mentioned up thread,
(Meant to start my thread with that, not use a 'mic drop' moment...!)

I'd compare it more with over eating / obesity except for the fact that alcohol is mind altering. There is a choice to over eat but it's a bit more complicated than that, though at the same time it's not an actual disease.

Thanks for the replys. My mum now says she is too old to give up. Which is a cop out. I still have to distance myself. She still acts in toxic ways. But now I am single and glad. I will never let anyone hurt me like that again. I also don't drink or smoke or do drugs. I did .

Sober 10 years here. A recovering alcoholic...I dont use the word recovered.

Wetting the bed 3 nights out of 7
Drink driving
Blackouts when drinking 9 times out of 10
Waking up in strange beds with strange men
Crippling debt
Fractured relationships
Vile and nasty behaviour
Deviousness
Etc etc. You get the picture.

Oh it wasnt a choice believe me. Would anyone choose to be that person?

One day I woke up and I just couldn't do it anymore and sought help with AA, but it took me 15 years to get to that place. And yes most of it was fear about the stigma and the fact that I knew I would never be able to drink again, not even a sip. However I am in the minority. Many people have far more years out there than me or never make it.

I totally get what bastards alcoholics can be. It runs in my family and as far as I'm aware I'm the only one who has sought help. But let me tell you, alcohol was my drug of choice but it could have been, coke, gambling, anything. I took to alcohol like a duck to water but I think that something would have gotten to me one way or another.

It is a mental illness that doesn't just get better once you put down the drink. The drink was masking a lot of deep rooted issues which I have had to address in sobriety, some of them very painful.

I didnt choose to be an addict. To those who are saying you should stop as soon as you feel you are becoming addicted, well that's the point, then you are not really an addict.

The man in the hospital must be one of the most desperate stories I've heard and I've heard some stories.

I also feel for those suffering at the hands of alkies, my dad is one and my mum is a dry drunk. Please get help through al anon and keep yourself safe. They are currently running virtual meetings.

I think its near impossible to sympathise when you are affected by someone else's refusal/ being to weak to get help. Alcoholics have brain damage. They are incapable of seeing or thinking beyond their next fix. But, having also had my life torn apart by others alcoholism, i can't help feeling contempt for those who don't get the help they need whilst it rips apart the lives of others.

Choosing to het help is always an option. The choice not to get help (however hard it is to get treatment) is still and always a choice

YANBU - self-inflicted!
My symphathy and empathy for people who are actually trying to get better.

And i have huge respect for recovering alcoholics.