To have no sympathy for alcoholics?

[Macrometa]

I'm the adult child of one, my life has been nothing but completely miserable because of it.

Today in my home town the newspaper ran a story about an alcoholic man who trespassed into the cancer department late at night. He stole two bottles of alcohol sanitizer from a fridge and drank them, he vomited sick and blood on the floor, urinated on the floor and then ripped down a cubicle curtain. He was found by a frightened cleaner the next morning.

The comments are full of people feeling sorry for the bloke, yet no concern for the cleaner who had to deal with the aftermath or the hospital who are now down on vital supplies and have to pay for repairs.

AIBU to have no sympathy for alcoholics?

It's interesting reading the two schools of thought regarding it being an illness or not. I'm in two minds about it as well still after all these years.
I may be wrong but I think AA go down the route of explaining alcoholism as a disease and someone up thread said that the WHO classify it as a disease.
The recovery group I went to (not AA) always said it's not a disease; the person always makes the choice to drink. They make the choice to obtain alcohol by whatever means and pour it down their throats themselves. No one forces them to do it. To say it's a disease is almost to absolve themselves of blame. "It's not my fault, I'm ill". But then having been through it myself I know that when you're in that deep you are no longer yourself and are somewhat powerless compared to how you'd be when sober. Also if you're physically dependent as I was it can be dangerous to quit cold turkey but unfortunately that is also used as an excuse to carry on. It's so difficult to explain! I do find the psychology behind it quite fascinating now I'm on the other side of it.

rosie answer to your question, no i don't.
don't understand lack of resilience full stop. luckily none of my family or friends are whiners (drink or emotional). and i don't think pandering to all things mental health helps.

Somebody is in the comments on the news page on Facebook lambasting anybody that doesn't feel unconditional sympathy. They work with substance abusers so feel that they know much better than relatives of said people who've known them in most cases their whole life.

It's easy to feel sorry for an alcoholic when you don't have to live with them, or are not personally affected by their behaviour.

fallfallfall then I sincerely hope that you or any of you friends and family suffer from any mental health problems
Lack of resilience has nothing to do with alcoholism
You may well be surprised that alcoholics come from all walks of life Policemen nurses Company Directors Members of Her Majesty’s services So lack of resilience has bugger all to do with it

If it is a disease, it is one that they have bestowed upon themselves.

However, there is a reason why they have got to this point. And it isn't usually that they just "like a drink".

Did you ever get to the bottom of why your mother started drinking?

I agree op. Another adult child of an alcoholic here. I'm waiting for my dad to die. It's fucked me up loads.

I wonder how many people would be as sympathetic if a member of your family was killed by a drunk driver?

It's a very selfish disease.

ABlackRussian believe me if is not a disease you would choose to bestow on yourself
I always keep half an eye on my children as alcoholism can be hereditary.

Anyone who believes Alcoholism is an illness what do think of Motor Neurone Disease, or MS?

You are not able to change a real physical illness by changing your behaviour.
Alcoholics have choices........Fact. I don't care how hard it is. It is a choice and many other people have to face painful deaths like cancer or cystic fibrosis. real illnesses that do not have choices.

Acoa here. Personally I don't have time for addicts or alcoholics anymore. It's survival. I can feel a certain amount of sympathy. I've seen the damage it does. I've felt and lived.the damage it does. I would not like to be an addict. It must be horrible. It's also horrible to have an alcoholic mother and heroin addict father. It changed me permanently. I have trauma induced harm ocd from the damage my dad did. Dermatililamania, severe social anxiety, 2 nervous breakdown s and a life time of shitty partners who continued to be violent. I am still in therapy with a group that supports life after abuse. I think if people knew what you've gone though then yeah, you have a very thin tolorence for addicts , alcholics.

@rosie1959 I agree, again just from my experience with my dad but there are family members who are so similar, all 3 of his nephews. I don't know scientifically but the tendencies do mirror his.

I mean people fall into addiction fir various reasons. Mental health problems and poverty yes. But also opportunistic availability, lack of self control increased consumption leading then on to physical addiction which can't be treated without medication. But there are often choices which can be made mad help offered at key times and many people make the wrong choices and then it becomes too ingrained.

FYI all who have responded to me with "not all alcoholics have lived with trauma", I'm very aware of that, sometimes it's quite the opposite. It's just there are more people who have been dealing with trauma than you realise. Of course there are the ones who just like a drink, do it to excess and make people miserable. Then there are folks who are pre disposed to alcoholism and addiction (a very sad but brutal truth) and they don't necessarily suffer because of trauma either, but they are definitely set up to fail due to their biology.

Then you have people who struggle with things like low impulse control and whom engage in self destructive behaviours, not just for the fun of it, but because their brains are wired differently, and sadly some of those self destructive behaviours involve drugs and alcohol. Regardless of how someone gets to being an alcoholic, it's very hard to be compassionate when you're on the receiving end of booze fuelled abuse etc, and there's no law to say that you have to live with that if you don't want to. It's not as clear cut as that if you're trapped in a situation with someone who drinks, it's never just easy to get up and go, or ask them to leave. It's hugely complicated.

But, everyone has the right to say "enough", or even "no" before anything starts. It's okay to tell someone you can't be around them when they have addiction problems. Nobody should be guilted into staying around, or tolerating something, especially if it's causing harm to you and your situation. The truth is that when people reach the addiction stage, that's when the most negative behaviours hit if they can't get what they're addicted to. Stealing, lying, cheating, violence etc. None of that is okay, and it shouldn't be tolerated.

I do believe people should be given a chance to right themselves, but if that doesn't work out then it's entirely reasonable to walk away. Sadly alcoholism is especially hard to beat, which is why we see so many gutwrenching stories, broken relationships, and compassion fatigue. It's bloody awful all round.

goldfinchfan if Alcoholism is not an illness mental or otherwise how come after not drinking for many years my experience tells me that if I took one drink I would most probably be exactly where I started. It’s still there I keep it in check by following a programme
Then in the same vein then depression is just a figment of the imagination it’s not physical you can’t see it?

I feel very sorry for alcoholics in the sense that I can't imagine how impossible getting sober must be when you've an addiction and your poison is absolutely everywhere. Coupled with knowing that, by virtue of being an addict of any kind, everyone thinks you're scum. I did outpatient rehab for benzodiazapines and I swear if you could buy them in the news agents like you can vodka I'd never have got off them. Proper addiction isn't just fancying something and not being able to have it, it's quite difficult to describe how all consuming it is. You seem to "need" it like you need water or oxygen.

Trouble is on a practical level I can see how "addicts are scum" + "they should get help" + "addicts never change" = people not wanting to even try to get help.

rosie1959, I do not entirely agree.

I have a disease which was passed on to me (from my mother, obvs not her fault). I have to live with this every day. I didn't choose it.

So, by comparison, you can only become an alcoholic by choosing to drink alcohol. Which is one of the reasons why I do not drink.

FYI I'm not and have never been an alcoholic, nor have I ever faced any addiction issues of my own. I have had people in my life who have, and I studied addiction, but I just wanted to clarify my personal position. I've had broken relationships due to both heroin, and alcohol. Both were ex boyfriends. I'm sure I don't have to go into detail about how horrific it was.

Teaandbiscuitsallday, cannot imagine what you have gone through

For all those saying alcoholism is an illness - it's an "illness" you're guaranteed not to get if you never drink. Their choices lead them to it

Did you ever get to the bottom of why your mother started drinking?

It began when she befriended a younger neighbour who liked to have parties and drink, she discovered she quite enjoyed getting tipsy, thought it was fun. It was that simple.

Then when it became habitual and people started asking questions she blamed the death of my grandparents, long deceased.

Then she said it was because she missed me and I lived so far away, so I uprooted 250 miles to support her.

Then she said she missed her dog which she had to rehome years ago. We got her another dog.

Then she blamed boredom again, so we found her a job volunteering. She jacked it in after the first day considering herself too good for it.

Then the excuse for drinking was because she hasn't done much with her life, yet she never bothered to do anything when she was younger.

I took her to the doctors thinking she was depressed, she's now been on antidepressants for years with no change.

Then she blamed the fact she was living in a housing complex for older people, being almost 60.

We got her moved and then the was complaining that she didn't like it there either.

Now she has reverted to "well I don't have much fun in my life, I just like to have a drink"

And that's it, she does.

She likes the way alcohol makes her feel. Bubbly and carefree.

She hasn't suffered trauma, she had an immensely supportive family and a good start to life.

She just likes drinking.

She receives benefits from the government for sitting on her arse and getting drunk because that is her hobby of choice. £500 a month of tax payers money. The same amount I used to get for working part time many years ago. That's alot of money wasted on somebody who doesn't appreciate or deserve it.

Don't get me started on how she wastes the NHS time and resources when they have to send an ambulance because she's fallen over again. Head scans aren't cheap I don't imagine, she's had at least three.

I've sourced her so much support from relevant services and she doesn't want any of it. She is a waste of space and I have not one iota of sympathy for the woman.

You aren't being unreasonable, to each to their own. It may not seem like it, but they do not "choose" to be an alcoholic. It's a viscous cycle and a horrible disease. While it's hard to sympathise and by no means do you have to, these people are sick.

@Teaandbiscuitsallday I hear you lovely, I'm so sorry for what you have been put through and I can relate to every part. You deserved, and do deserve, so much more.

Sending you un-mumsnetty hugs x

If we can help someone like that with some treatment then yes let's do that, but at the end of the day they are responsible for their actions.

If we say "ah but they can't help it" then we must forgive serial killers too No undamaged person is going to decide on serial killer as a career.

We are all what we are because of the life we have led, but that doesn't remove responsibility.

Macrometa, thank you for getting back to me.

So, basically, she liked to party

Do you have any support. It sounds like you've been through a lot?

ABlackRussian true but you see many people drink not knowing they have this underlying problem I drank very little till I was nearly 40 perhaps the odd glass here or there I then started to drink a little more my social group certainly could put it away. Then before I knew it I could not stop but the worst thing was although I was an intelligent human being I had a good job nice house two lovely children I could not see the problem
Looking back now it seems madness but fortunately I am and have been a member of AA for a long time so I understand so much more.
I only drank for a few years but that was enough for me
I now try never to be judgemental because who knows what may happen to anyone

@OliviaBenson I hear you too, Olivia. What you've said resonates with me so much. Just waiting to hear that they've died.

I'm so sorry for what you've been through and you deserve so much better. You don't owe your parents any sympathy at all