To believe we are back to Herd Immunity

[yesterdayschild]

Those of us who have very little are almost being forced back to work where the risk of catching CV could be very high. The rich, famous and privileged can afford to stay home or work from home where the risk is much lower.

I am worried for everyone who has to go back to work. Ifeel that the government does not give a shit about the less fortunate people.

They're not super spreaders and they don't get it badly. In general.

Make sense?

No, I don't live in 'Sunny Village'.

Where I live there are much higher rates of 'underlying conditions' spread throughout different age ranges and occupations.

Also where I live people care about the deaths among their families, friends and neighbours even if they were a bit old or had a health condition.

My worry is that “ the Herd” are also fatter and older now. Maybe lockdown with rationing and compulsory exercise would have been useful in fighting this.
Only half joking.

Well I've put on a stone since lockdown. I'm ready to fucking break out.

We know that if certain groups of people get it, they'll likely die (the shielded).
Except that most of them aren't shielded. The UK media today finally reported on what I noticed months ago. The highest death rate is in diabetics. Who aren't on the shielding list.

I don't understand why people put on weight during lockdown. We're allowed out for exercise. Anyone shielding (on the list or not) can do home exercise. Joe Wicks is just one of many free workouts on-line.

Obviously some people can't easily exercise. Those with mobility problems for example but that's something ongoing for them and irrelevant to lockdown.

We could still turn this around if enough people decided it was worth the bother.
This.

It's not 'scaremongerimg' to want to do something (achieved by other countries) to prevent many more avoidable deaths and slower economic recovery.

We have a choice. Taking actions now to mitigate the damage. Or muttering about hindsight several months further down the line when things are no better (and likely worse).

"I don't understand why people put on weight during lockdown."

Stress and boredom eating, as well as drinking. Food is something to look forward to and gives us a fix.

"We know that if certain groups of people get it, they'll likely die (the shielded)."

That's not quite true. Only around 5% of the under 80's will. As well as the government list, it's also up to GPs, who will add on patients.

Channel 4 news did a huge segment on care workers. And how they are under paid , under valued, classed as low skilled and why they cant socially distance due to the appalling places some of them live in.

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Add message | Report | Message posterHeIenaDove Thu 14-May-20 19:14:10
A care worker interviewed lives in one room with her son and they share bathroom and kitchen facilities with ten other families
Hardly an ideal living situation to cook healthy meals

A care worker was ill with Covid for 28 days and was brought a hot meal every day by Hare Krishna She has to walk an hour to get to work and same to get home because she cant afford public transport

www.channel4.com/news/charities-demand-care-home-workers-are-paid-a-living-wage

Aside from the fact that over 80s matter as much as anyone else.

Only around 2-3% of the 66 million living in the UK are over 80.

5% of 63 million under 80s is a lot of people dead.

that's 80% of the village who are now immune.

That's assuming that the virus doesn't mutate into a different form that the 80%'s immune systems don't recognise. CV has already mutated into different strains.

There's a highly influential branch of moral philosophy, utilitarianism, that would regard it as the most ethical way forward.

It's more ethical to prioritise an abstract, intangible concept like "the economy" over actual people? Pull the other one, it has bells on.

Not everything has a price tag and some things are worth far more than money.

I don’t see that there is any viable alternative to herd immunity. Though obviously for political reasons the government can’t come straight out and say this!

I don’t understand how countries who have taken the opposite approach and have been able to virtually eradicate the virus in the short term, like New Zealand, can maintain this though. Surely it’s only a matter of time before someone entering NZ is carrying the virus but is asymptomatic and so gets in. The virus then spreads and the country is back to square one. Alternatively no one could leave or return to NZ without a lot of time in quarantine which isn’t going to be viable.

And on why people may put on weight in lockdown? Well normally in my walk/train/tube/walk commute I average 10,000-15,000 steps a day. Attempting to work from home and look after & teach 2 primary school aged children, I’m lucky if I get out the house for a 20 min (3,000 step) walk per day!

5% of 63 million under 80s is a lot of people dead.

"Just get on with it" is shorthand for "If you catch this illness, you have a 1 in 20 chance of dying, as do your loved ones. Now go out and catch it and spread it around like a good little disposable worker ant."

No wonder people who can stay at home are saying fuck that, I'm staying in.

And as I have said before and will keep on saying until the absurd levels of stupidity disappear, when those of us who can stay at home do so, we make it safer for those who can't stay at home by reducing the spread.

I don’t see that there is any viable alternative to herd immunity.
The rest of the world does.

without a lot of time in quarantine which isn’t going to be viable.
Why not? It's worked for them so far. Vietnam too. And others.

I understand the comfort and stress eating but people would do that during a pandemic lockdown or not. In fact likely more so without a lockdown when they discover the social and economic consequences of 'herd immunity'.

I'm sorry if you're struggling with your children being at home Offred2. I think it's probably more important for them to get out and get some exercise than trying to rigidly stick to daily teaching. They'll catch up. Perhaps make it an after school/workday thing? Or could you say it's PE and set them up with an online workouts whilst you get some work done?

I don’t see that there is any viable alternative to herd immunity. Though obviously for political reasons the government can’t come straight out and say this!

This kind of sums it up. Who's are those various stages of grief? I'm beyond googling tonight! But collectively we are still at step 1 I'm afraid.

Hi @bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg

It's more ethical to prioritise an abstract, intangible concept like "the economy" over actual people?

Well I guess it depends on your code of ethics! But no, not in my opinion.

Toffee “ I don't understand why people put on weight during lockdown”

Why am I not surprised to hear this from you 🤷🏻‍♀️

“ It's more ethical to prioritise an abstract, intangible concept like "the economy" over actual people? Pull the other one, it has bells on.”

How is the economy intangible? It puts food on the table, pays the rent and pays for the NHS.

Lilac That's out of context. I was replying to someone suggesting they'd gained weight because they couldn't exercise during lockdown. Which isn't the case since we're allowed out to exercise and we can also home workout. Unless they have mobility issues, in which case lockdown is irrelevant.

I've already mentioned I'm aware of comfort eating, which would possibly be even worse with the stress of unchecked no lockdown Covid.

I've also written on other threads about my wish to see better MH provision to include help for comfort eating.

Toffee “ I've also written on other threads about my wish to see better MH provision to include help for comfort eating.”

People won't need food on the table, rent, or NHS, if they're dead.

How do we have a healthy recovering economy when loads of the workforce are off sick for weeks or dead or grieving and traumatised?

Why don't we do what other countries have done? Worked on reducing the infection rate, test, trace, PPE for frontline staff drugs (and if required, oxygen) early treatment, masks for the public. And border controls - checks and quarantine.

Apparently we're one of the only countries worldwide who haven't implemented any border measures.

All these relatively simple measures (achieved by other countries). That's our safe way out of lockdown. Protects lives and the economy.

What's the problem with wanting better MH support for all eating disorders Lilac?

For some people comfort eating is as much an issue and as deserving of support as anorexia is for others. Yet it's too often dismissed as somebody simply being 'greedy'. Take a look at some of the fat-shaming posts to see what I mean.

Of course comfort eating is irrelevant to somebody saying they can't exercise during lockdown. Because lockdown doesn't stop people from exercising - inside or out. Other things might, including mobility issues, but that's nothing to do with the pandemic.

I have given my view on there countless times. Many public experts say best strategy for health, economy and society is not natural herd immunity but building a comprehensive testing, tracing and isolating program buying time for therapeutics or vaccine to be developed, though latter far from guaranteed. The countries who have done this have the lowest cases and deaths.

Great article by Prof Devi Sridhar explaining why this best option in her eyes and I know many others in her field.

Easing social distancing without a proper programme of testing, contact tracing and isolating will lead to a second wave of coronavirus”

Well argued article by Global Professor of Health, Professor Devi Sridhar. She believes the best strategy ahead that will protect public health, society and the economy is a comprehensive programme of of testing, contact tracing and isolating. Mixed messages from govt whether they are giving enough focus to this due to a split in the cabinet on whether to follow this or the natural herd immunity strategy.

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/tories-lockdown-social-distancing-testing-second-wave-coronavirus?__twitter_impression=true

Toffee people aren’t getting fat because of exercise or lack off.

It’s because we’ve had to stay home and cooking/ baking / being a European SAHM because we have to eat in between painting.
Plus some of us can drink wine like fish. Happy in the knowledge that there’s no work or school to be up at 7 for.

I’ve made a cake, loaf or biscuit every other day for 8 weeks. I used to be low carb.

Reminder to self

Stop engaging with Toffee

To be clear to everyone else

I don’t want to stop anyone seeking help for mental heath

But I hope you get some help, at the moment it’s particularly hard.

for everyone struggling

I never said people were getting fat because of lack of exercise.
I was pointing out we were allowed out to exercise during lockdown (or able to exercise at home). In response to a poster claiming lockdown meant no exercise.

I really enjoy baking. It's awful for low carbing though isn't it! Have you tried any of the low or no carb flours? It's a different taste and I know it's not for everyone. I like it sometimes but I've found I can't give up normal flour. I prefer to eat it and exercise more but we're all different.