To believe we are back to Herd Immunity

[yesterdayschild]

Those of us who have very little are almost being forced back to work where the risk of catching CV could be very high. The rich, famous and privileged can afford to stay home or work from home where the risk is much lower.

I am worried for everyone who has to go back to work. Ifeel that the government does not give a shit about the less fortunate people.

I've always thought herd immunity was the plan from the very beginning.

The alternative is herd susceptibility.

MrsHound

OMD even SAGE are seeing the benefits of being outside!

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/13/sunlight-fresh-air-can-protect-against-coronavirus-sage-adviser/

HS2 is estimated to cost £100 billion. If the government scrapped that then that money could boost the economy and pay the furlough bill

Sorry I'm missing your logic. Why scrap a project that will provide 1000's of construction jobs and actually provide work for people. Spend £100 billion and they'll get probably get at least half back in taxes, both income tax, VAT etc. And the money will also support work for other people not directly employed so in turn keeping people off benefits.

Where is the money coming from for furlough??? Not to mention the longer furlough goes on the more frugal the furloughed will become as they become less certain of job security. Which inturn affects other jobs, if when your worried about cash your less likely to buy the odd luxury.

OP, you can't outsmart NATURE. The only sure way out of this is HERD IMMUNITY. Did you really think you would stay in your home while the government printed endless cash and somehow the disease would disappear or until a vaccine was rolled out?
Give your head a shake. Yes, you'll probably get COVID. And chances Are you'll be just fine. Time to END lockdown and start moving towards herd immunity and get the economy back on its feet.

Unfortunately though without a vaccine we do need herd immunity.

Sorry not read through the entire thread, but do we? What about focusing on building up a testing, tracing and quarantining system? This govt does seem to be doing this, though I think there are concerns it may not be thorough enough and happening quick enough. A test, trace and quarantine could potentially get the R number down and keep it down giving time to develop therapeutics and/or a vaccine, although neither are certain, especially a vaccine.

You're right Guylan
And we could give early treatment too. Like some other countries are doing.

We don't need to wait for a vaccine or practice eugenics kill off lots of people and cause a delayed economic recovery aka 'herd immunity'.

We could opt for the third option. The one most places worldwide have gone for. Reduce the infection rate, quarantines (95,000 arrived at our airports with no checks the past two months), enough PPE for frontline staff, antibody tests, masks for the public, early treatment.

get the economy back on its feet.
The markets fell today. Because of concerns about the second wave - and the economic disruption it will cause.

All the desperate attempts at turning back the tide, pretending the deadly infectious disease has gone away or isn't a big problem has only delayed a return to any semblance of normality. We now face a far longer economic recovery.

All the money spent on extending furlough could've instead gone on drugs, PPE, and tests.

HS2 will be using obsolete technology. It's a hugely wasteful project. Billions and billions of tax revenue on something that will shave 20 minutes off a wealthy executive's journey (it's set to be too expensive for most people to use).

I do not understand people who think the choice is herd immunity or nothing.
There seems to be lots of other countries that have built up decent testing and contact chasing who have reduced the virus within their borders to almost nothing, whilst our government are busy being as vague as possible whilst betraying a whole generation of the working class, including care assistants, bus drivers and shop workers.

Those who have had no choice but to work from the beginning will have their chance of catching the virus massively increased from today, whereas if they were in almost any other country in the world , their chances will be slowly decreasing. It's not good enough that the government refuses to implement ideas which are working in other countries with no real excuse as to why.

Without a vaccine herd immunity requires getting the virus, which as an asthmatic I am in no hurry to do. Still I’m sure many on here won’t mind throwing asthmatics under the bus.

I believe that SARS was also a covid - and it just mutated itself away and dissapeared, I think that this one will too.Eventually.

We could close our borders for a start ffs!

Herd immunity comes from a proper vaccination programme, not this bullshit policy of leaving the weakest to simply die. That was word spin by Demonic Cullings, right from the start. Deliberate obfuscation. Yes, they want the lower classes back to work, because how else are they going to keep the garden tidy and the kids tucked up in bed by nanny? The Tories hate you and me, don't ever fucking forget that. We are cannon fodder for their school project type eugenics experiment. Good luck folks.

Just to emphasise, herd immunity is NOT possible before a vaccine has been developed and used widely, please don't confuse allowing the virus to run wild with that, it's almost the opposite.

Sinister I’m asthmatic too, I’d rather have my freedom and normal life and know I have a high chance of getting it and maybe dying.

But I don’t feel a locked down life and a ruined economy is a future worth having.

Protests in Madrid now too

www.ft.com/content/06102fce-b56c-4a2c-9ca2-dd73e712b09a

But I don’t feel a locked down life and a ruined economy is a future worth having

It is not a case of lockdown vs 'normal' with a caveat of acceptance that you might get the virus.

If there is a huge swell of a second wave (from attempting to just 'get back to normal' and resuming business as usual) that will do severe damage to the economy.

If the hospitals begin to burst at the rafters, with whatever % of the so-called 'young and healthy' demographic who are unfortunate enough to get very ill, there will be chaos.

In that scenario the people needing hospital treatment for other, non- Covid problems still won't be able to access it. You risk healthcare professionals dying at a higher rate which means an even longer backlog of untreated patients.

Not to mention that about 100 children in NYC where I am are very sick (some have died) in hospital with a severe inflammatory syndrome with similarities to toxic shock. Not all of these kids had corona symptoms, they just suddenly become very ill.

All of this spreading unchecked will cause utter fear and chaos and the economy will be trash anyway.

This sums up what I think.

With the new guidelines just brought in, which are in the main shambolic and too much too soon, yes, I do believe Boris and his government have returned to their early ill-fated Herd Immunity approach. It now appears that he has learnt nothing from his brush with death, the mistakes made with starting lockdown too late and allowing events like Cheltenham to go ahead, the missing and substandard PPE, the vulnerability of care homes, the painfully slow start to testing and track and trace, and our death rates which are the highest in Europe. Suddenly pushing people back on to crowded public transport, opening up the country to widespread travel for exercise, allowing households to mix albeit one person at a time and with 2m advice, keeping borders open and reopening schools when we are still at a perilous stage all sounds like a recipe for a second wave to me.

How will that ultra rich person avoid CV if he/she wants to have a normal life having contact with people, shopping/socialisting? Everyone will come into contact with it eventually, there is no other way. And people who aren't ultra rich, who are just earning good money, they'll be back in the office soon too. There has never been a realistic alternative but herd immunity unless a vaccine is developed.

What do you think the furlough scheme was about if the government "didn't give a shit about less fortunate people"? How do you think that will be paid for if not through a combination of taxes and austerity?

One realistic way of implementing the isolate, test, trace policy is to geographically divide UK and have internal borders (as well as closing external borders). Then start with remote places with low rates of infection and allow increased freedoms. These can get back to local life as normal. As infected numbers decrease in other sectors, accordingly lift restrictions/reimpose if outbreaks.

Some people think this is an unacceptable limitation of freedom though. I think it will allow greater local freedoms that people care about.

What @Notmyfirstusername said - spot on

@BelfryBat I agree we’ll most likely experience a second wave but I recon on it being 4-6 weeks away. It’s true Covid-19 incubates on average for 2 weeks but not everyone is taken advantage of the change of lockdown as yet. As the weather gets warmer and more inviting I feel more and more will go out and about. Then add in schools phased returns, more people returning to work and increased use of public transport. That means more people being exposed to infected people, then taking it home to the rest of the family. Most definitely a second wave coming. The virus can’t just disappear. We aren’t anywhere near a vaccine yet. We need to find a new normal.

Wash hands, keep socially distanced, don’t get in anyone’s breathing space. As well as disinfecting your surfaces and door handles at home; Disinfect car handles, steering wheels, seats, shopping bags, outdoor clothes etc.

Keep yourselves safe people.

I’m not really understanding you either op. Firstly if the government didn’t give a shit, what was the massive financial package to support people all about then?

And secondly what do you mean go back to work, millions have worked every single day, delivery drivers, cleaners, nhs staff, post people, emergsncy services, warehouse staff, office staff, teachers. Who do you think processes things when someone places an online order? Loads the vans? Looks after key workers children’s in schools?

Do you mean you’re pissed off you need to go back to work? That maybe you don’t really care about the folks who worked throughout?

And I guess you’re also forgetting the disease as 0.05 percent fatality rate, and that’s skewed to the elderly and those with underlying health conditions? That for healthy people below 65 the risk is miniscule? That for most people the biggest symptom is no symptom?

And another who has had no option but to work. I'm a CPN. Currently I'm redeployed to do the depot clinic. I have been going to people's homes to do injections. Little chance of social distancing in that scenario.