To believe we are back to Herd Immunity

[yesterdayschild]

Those of us who have very little are almost being forced back to work where the risk of catching CV could be very high. The rich, famous and privileged can afford to stay home or work from home where the risk is much lower.

I am worried for everyone who has to go back to work. Ifeel that the government does not give a shit about the less fortunate people.

YANBU Dr Michael Ryan of the WHO had some fairly damning remarks about countries that were using “herd immunity” only a few days ago:

www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/transcripts/who-audio-emergencies-coronavirus-press-conference-11may2020.pdf?sfvrsn=4f78bd0_0

'I know this is a stupid question (how long is a piece of string-esque) but when are we likely to hit what seems to be an inevitable second wave? Will it be summer or later in the year?'

Autumn or winter, like flu. People are inside more and their vitamin d levels are lower.
It will be a lot easier to keep the R down through the summer.

If you read the op properly it's nothing to do with science but someone being called back to work while she perceives the wealthy as having choices.

Strangely they have not responded to the poor working class on this thread that have been working as financially we have had no choice. No furlough for anyone in this house. We don't work we can't pay our bills.

Many of us have worked on the covid front line or been exposed tbrough the early stages with poor ppe.

We’ll be hitting wave 2 in about a fortnight from now IMO.

There's no point saving people from Covid if they then take their own lives due to the restrictions imposed on them or the economic impact of their restrictions, or they end up dying of other preventable conditions that the scaremongering has led them not to seek treatment for. It has become increasingly apparent that it isn't realistic to eradicate the virus from society and that any possible vaccine is almost certainly at least a year away, meaning the choice is between indefinite lock down or allowing the virus to spread to some extent with fewer restrictions on life. With these choices in mind it is likely that allowing the virus to spread will cause less deaths than the alternative of keeping the country in lock down due to the social and economic consequences of lockdown.

Loads of people have worked through this!

I am far more worried about getting cancer (all routine mammograms cancelled with no new dates) than covid 19.

You could argue that we are in the same position as many other countries now.

Our death rate is higher........but so is our % of population infected.

Are we further along the inevitable road that many countries need to travel?

We'll see.

ps I wfh - I would happily.go to office though.

Dh has been at work this whole time without any hysterics, just like everyone else who's been at work.

@SpyApp..very good post.

We are in a position where we can stay home almost indefinitely , also my husband can work from home and has almost everyone working from home & will indefinitely he will not risk his employees , the people that need to visit sites have ppe supplied (masks,gloves, visers ,alcohol gel) , I'm so disappointed in other companies not doing the same ... We won't be sending our children to school and my husband won't be going to work until the UK is clear of the virus x

very many of the rich and famous have had Covid as it circulated so much at international conferences, ski resorts etc

There are lots of people who have carried on working in manufacturing as well.

We are in a no win situation because this is a worldwide problem and people will also be ill and suffer greatly when the economic impact strikes and they lose their houses . This will affect everyone from all classes imo. Owners of companies going bust as well .big companies who employ thousands.

I agree about the class divide. Bus drivers and those working in care homes are dying at a much higher rate than doctors and nurses. It’s savage. No glory, poorly paid and in the front line.
No idea what we can do but isolating the richer end of the spectrum whilst expecting everyone on minimum wage to get on with it is pretty horrible.

@Hadenoughfornow

Actually deaths per million of population we are not the highest .

Also comparing the excess deaths over normal we are about 60% up over this time last year . The USA is 133% up. Which considering they are much lower population density than us is bad .

there's plenty of people who haven't had the luxury of protection for the last 3 months: super markets workers, bin men, farmers, nhs, etc.

The rest of us staying at home has protected key workers by reducing the spread of the virus, meaning that key workers are less likely to come into contact with an infected person at work. I wish people would remember that.

The number of domestic violence fatalities murders has doubled since lockdown. Women and children have been murdered by men because of the lockdown measures intended to protect the NHS's capacity and reduce the risk to key workers. I wish people would remember that too.

From key words in your post.

WE ARE IN A POSITION

Most aren't..........

In the end, we can’t hide forever. Money & privilege didn’t stop Boris catching the virus.

There has only ever been herd immunity or the faint hope of a vaccine. But the common cold is a corona virus and we don’t have a vaccine for that after 100 years of trying.

Take my bIL. He is a healthy 70yo male. He might reasonably live another 20 years. He is retired so doesn’t have to go to work. But he doesn’t want to spend 20 years in his back garden, a self financed prison.

If he wants to see his dcs & dgdcs, he needs to accept risk. Just as we all do. We can manage and mitigate risk but we can’t remove it completely. No-one can.

Susie we are pretty high though.

But I will look at stats when there is no more Covid.

Until then we cannot say what country is managing better as we all have different strategies.

Yup rich vs poor, rich get to stay home

But the common cold is a corona virus and we don’t have a vaccine for that after 100 years of trying

To be fair they've not bothered ploughing millions into curing the common cold.

Of course it is herd community we may take two years or a decade depending on how many can lock down for years but eventually we all have to get on with our lives.

Herd immunity is the only solution. And it's time that we stopped hiding under the duvet and got on with keeping the place going.

We don’t even know if herd immunity will exist either. It’s a very new virus and data is emerging all the time. Current evidence suggests that not everyone who has had it develops antibodies against it, and there is some data to suggest that even if you did develop antibodies you lose them (in keeping with other corona viruses like the common cold which people catch year after year). However, reassuringly there have been no cases where people have been proven to be infected twice (note I say proven, I’m sure you will all agree that we are testing so few people that it’s actually very difficult to know who has had it and who hasn’t). But it’s early days and I’m not sure I believe that it will be true that there are no re-infections in a few months when the early patients may have lost their antibodies. Part of the issue is that we don’t have validated antibody tests yet (so maybe some people have antibodies but the tests don’t pick them up) but it’s certainly concerning and makes me think a vaccine is our best hope of this not becoming an annual event.

Evidence here for those interested:

jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766097

www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19

Totally agree @SpyApp

I know they are doing some clinical trials but there doesn't seem to be much emphasis placed on finding some effective therapies or treatments - well not that you hear being talked about anyway.