To believe we are back to Herd Immunity

[yesterdayschild]

Those of us who have very little are almost being forced back to work where the risk of catching CV could be very high. The rich, famous and privileged can afford to stay home or work from home where the risk is much lower.

I am worried for everyone who has to go back to work. Ifeel that the government does not give a shit about the less fortunate people.

Op you say the government don’t give a shit about less fortunate people, but what is it you actually expect them to do? Pressure people who are able to work from home to go out? Would that make it better?

Stop panicking. It's just work. Get on with it. Yes, there are dangers out there, but it's not really the end of the world. It will be though if we don't get our butts moving again soon.

Ifeel that the government does not give a shit about the less fortunate people
Some of the poorest and least fortunate are staying at home though. Pensioners. Those who’ve been made redundant. Those on benefits, unemployment and disability etc. It’s not just the very rich who are able to isolate because they don’t work - it’s also the very poor because they don’t work either. It’s those in the middle who have to work.

I don't think it's as simple as rich v poor. My relatives run a pub and definitely aren't rich! They're stuck in the pub with no money coming in
I work in a small contact centre - furloughed and shielding. Will be WFH soon as I can't go back to work. I earn less than 27k

@Mintjulia sigh the common cold is not a coronavirus - the common cold is made of many many different types of viruses. As in there are many different types of the virus which cause ’common cold symptoms’ some of those viruses are mild Coronaviruses.

Saw this on FB...

I’m baffled by this sudden fear of “going back to work”. OP you do realise that many people never stopped going to work, don’t you?

MrsHound “ The nonsense about being able to go out to exercise for as long as you want, go sunbathing and travel anywhere in England”

So you want people only to be allowed to work?

HS2 is estimated to cost £100 billion. If the government scrapped that then that money could boost the economy and pay the furlough bill.

What the fuck else do you suggest we do then ?

The rest of us staying at home has protected key workers by reducing the spread of the virus, meaning that key workers are less likely to come into contact with an infected person at work. I wish people would remember that.

Oh I remember all right. I'm so grateful that I'm still a hell of a lot more likely to come into contact with an infected person than you are.

Every day when my husband, my daughter and I all have to go to work I'm thrilled that you are able to stay at home and stay safe from catching something that could kill you or one of your family members.

If I could stay at home and protect myself like you can, I would.

Herd immunity is the only solution. And it's time that we stopped hiding under the duvet and got on with keeping the place going.

Italian doctors were overwhelmed by cases and having to choose which of two or three patients got the one ventilator, condemning the ones who didn't get it to death. Epidemiologists are warning of the consequences of relaxing lockdown too much or too soon. But hey, some (probably almost certainly completely unqualified in medicine or epidemiology) random on the internet says we should all go back to our workplaces, so chop chop, get the pubs reopened.

Those of us who are working from home are already "getting on with keeping the place going", as are the keyworkers and others who can't work from home whose infection risk is reduced by people working from home or being furloughed. Many of the furloughed workers are in hospitality, catering, and non-essential retail and won't be going back any time soon because their workplaces are shut by law to control the virus spread.

The reality of a pandemic can't be wished away for the sake of "the economy", and if you did some research, you'd know that.

I see lots of people sharing total doom memes and messages about returning to work. Lets hope that all of the people who have been working to provide us with medical care, food, utilties, deliveries, benefits, care for our relatives, transport etc throughout all of this don't see them and decide to down tools.

We are in manufacturing and have been working throughout. It's been great, keeping life normal. Good social distancing though and no need for public transport (everyone drives or walks)

*MrsHound “ The nonsense about being able to go out to exercise for as long as you want, go sunbathing and travel anywhere in England”

So you want people only to be allowed to work?*

I dont think people should be able to travel anywhere in England to exercise or have day out. Easing restrictions to allow people to work is probably going to help stimulate the economy, sitting in the park sunbathing helps how?

The reality of a pandemic can't be wished away for the sake of "the economy", and if you did some research, you'd know that.

Hi @bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg

Good points, which I agree with. But we should face the music and accept the deaths. Because the consequences of the alternative (which I have no doubt is in fact what is going to happen) is far worse.

Oh I remember all right. I'm so grateful that I'm still a hell of a lot more likely to come into contact with an infected person than you are.

So what do you propose then? That we lift lockdown just so that we are all at a high risk of catching this virus? Should even more people be put at risk so that you feel that the situation is "fair"? Do you want a race to the bottom, is that it?

My sister is still working in her factory. Her husband is WFH. She is not spitting venom because he can stay safe whilst she must go out. She is glad that he can WFH because it keeps them both safer.

@Rhodri

HeIenaDove Wed 13-May-20 23:58:28
Ive said before the infrastructure isnt there to support a lockdown.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/13/charities-report-rise-in-older-people-struggling-for-food-in-lockdown?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Charities report rise in older people struggling for food in lockdown
People too scared to go out and lacking usual support networks during coronavirus crisis

There has been a dramatic increase in the number of older people malnourished or at risk of malnutrition since the coronavirus crisis began, according to Age UK and the Malnutrition Task Force.

Age UK delivers almost 19,000 food packages a week to older people and has reported a rise in numbers without food or the support to plan, to cook and eat by themselves.

“We know there are older people living on their own in the community who are running out of food and struggling to replenish their supplies because they are too frightened to go out, confused by the guidance or because their usual support networks have collapsed as a result of a pandemic,” said Caroline Abrahams, the charity director of Age UK.

These people are not on anyone’s list,” she added. “Typically they are not online. However, the pandemic has pulled the rug out from under them, so that their usual strategies for getting by are no longer working

The charity said that since the pandemic began there had been an unprecedented number of inquiries to its advice line, peaking at almost double the usual rate of calls

Age UK and the Malnutrition Task Force have reported an increase in contacts about older people being discharged from hospital with no food or support in place, and people struggling to access social care support or manage without the informal help usually available from family and friends.

The charities are also hearing of increased stress and anxiety among people with ongoing health and care needs, causing them to reduce their intake of food and drink.

Abrahams said she had a conversation recently with an elderly man called Nigel. “He has no food in his house but he is scared to leave it because of coronavirus,” she said. “Nigel isn’t online. He was recently discharged from hospital but no longer gets any support at home. Nigel was told that food parcels would be delivered but has only received one some time ago. He is now out of food and has no family or friends who can help him.”

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Another Age UK frontline service reported the case of 79-year-old Betty, who relies on her friend to top up her gas meter. “She doesn’t have funds to do it herself and is unable to go out. She has emphysema but is just using a blanket to keep warm,” said Abrahams.

She hasn’t got any food, only some bread and bacon that a neighbour gave her. She is worried and lonely, with no support. She is unable to contact her GP because she does not have much phone credit or enough money to top it up,” she said.

Dianne Jeffrey, the chair of the Malnutrition Task Force, said: We are extremely worried that the number of those suffering malnutrition is rising. Many of these people will eventually be admitted to hospital

A government spokesperson said: “Vulnerable individuals can refer themselves to the NHS Volunteer Responders programme by calling 0808 196 3646 to be linked with a volunteer who can shop for them.

“There are also commercial food delivery options available, including food boxes and prepared meals. A list of these has been shared with local authorities and charities, including Age UK. Anyone in urgent need of support should contact their local authority, most of which have dedicated Covid-19 helplines

we should face the music and accept the deaths

Two of my family have received letters telling them to shield because they have health conditions that mean that coronavirus would probably kill them. A colleague with no underlying relevant health conditions spent a week in hospital on a CPAP with CV.

It's easy to talk about "accepting the deaths" when it's not you or your family or your friends or your colleagues whose heads are on the block.

We could sort out most of the financial damage by imposing a land value tax, get the Duke of Westminster to pay into the system. His family have used a trust to dodge inheritance taxes for decades, time for him to pony up.

But we should face the music and accept the deaths

What your family and friends?

I bet most of the posters saying "we just need to get on with it" are working from home.

It's easy to talk about "accepting the deaths" when it's not you or your family or your friends or your colleagues whose heads are on the block.

I do agree, this is certainly true.

We could sort out most of the financial damage by imposing a land value tax, get the Duke of Westminster to pay into the system. His family have used a trust to dodge inheritance taxes for decades, time for him to pony up.

This is ludicrously not true And the consequences go far beyond the economic. And very far beyond the epidemiological, a discipline to which we are attaching far too much weight.

MrsHound “ Easing restrictions to allow people to work is probably going to help stimulate the economy, sitting in the park sunbathing helps how?”

You don’t think it’s good to get fresh air and sun for physical and mental health? You’d rather my nurse neighbour has her 12 hour shifts and then sits in 400 sq ft studio alone?

Even in Germany, their strictest lockdown encouraged people to get some sun and fresh air.

If you’ll only be swayed by economics - are you Matt Hancock - then surely the fact that people who can get out more will have better health and be less likely to get sick and carry on with their jobs, should sway you?

No, I wouldn't say the gov doesn't give a shit.
However, YANBU in bringing up herd immunity.

I don't think we are back to it though - we never left it. I've always thought herd immunity was the plan from the very beginning.

“ I bet most of the posters saying "we just need to get on with it" are working from home.”

I lost my job because of this, got some temp work (trial first) customer facing, next week. Can’t wait. I need to pay bills but also I’m looking forward to being part of the world again.

It’s usually the working at home types who say “ lockdown till vaccine” but would have kittens if the shop staff weren’t in.