AIBU - partner wants me to stop speaking Italian with my mum

[countrywalks1]

AIBU? Me and my partner have been staying at my mum's flat because of covid issues. She told me after 2 days here that she feels it's rude that I speak Italian with mum in front of her as she doesn't know what's going on and doesn't understand the language. I replied saying I understand it must be frustrating not to know, especially as she's the kind of person who likes to know everything, and the pandemic is really tough on her as she's homesick and hasn't been home properly for months, so I can understand why as she says she feels excluded.

However, my counterpoint was that I usually (about 60%) talk with mum in Italian. Culturally, I would say I'm half British and half Italian - I've mostly grown up in the UK but was born and most of my extended family are and live in Italy. I speak Italian fluently, but if I don't speak it regularly it gets a bit worse as I get out of practice with tenses and conjugations etc.

So I speak Italian with my mum because: 1) for me it's the language we've always communicated; 2) it makes me feel more connected with my Italian culture; 3) it pleases me to practice it; 4) I'm pretty sure my mum prefers talking to me in Italian than in English as she doesn't really get to speak it with anyone after my granddad (her dad) passed away a few years ago as did my very bilingually fluent brother. It's complicated I know!!!!

So told this to my partner, she says she appreciates the reasoning but still unnecessary to speak it when she's there as it feels she's excluded. I told her I understand why but I struggle to understand why she couldn't move past it as I've been in the same situation with friends speaking a language I don't understand where I just talk English when I can, or ask what's going on. The other thing is that usually my mum will save talking to me in Italian for mum things like telling me off or telling me to do something. I emphasised that we're never using it to talk about her or be nasty, and we kind of slip into it naturally.

Still she says she feels excluded, which at this point I understand. She was also in my opinion a bit nasty and in anger said we moved over here to the UK and chose to stay so we shouldn't really be talking Italian anymore anyway, we should be British. This I put down to anger that I wasn't understanding her point of view. In her defence she did also say I could speak it if I taught her Italian, although I struggle that the emphasis is on me to teach her when we have been together for 8 years and even gone over to visit my Italian relatives in Italy and been to weddings etc - without ever having tried to learn. Albeit we've been doing vocational education together throughout this time so many other important things to learn.

So last night I worked really hard to make sure I spoke only in English with everyone, so when mum asked me something in Italian I actively made sure to reply in English.

I just need to know AIBU in feeling disappointed? I understand my partner's frustration, and I can try to cut down on the Italian for a little while because of the circumstances - it's tough being homesick and then not even being able to understand the conversation where you are. It's just the request that I cut down on speaking Italian with my mum when she's also there - as I told her, I expect that I will always see mum with her (we're planning on getting married). I also feel that she's asking me to hide away (in the context of communicating with mum) a little part of my own culture. Therefore, AIBU to not let this lie?

That was to @TheCanterburyWhales

Bad enough being stuck at someone else’s Mums flat for lockdown but then being excluded from 30-60% of the conversations

You say you get us but I don’t think you do. You have your mum and your partner. She has only had her partner and you are ignoring her 30-60% of the time

Does your need to practice Italian and enjoyment of the language really trump her feelings of being stuck in a strange place feeling ignored and lonely?

I completely agree with this

I wonder how much the problem is compounded by the fact that just asking for a teaspoon is going to sound disproportionately exciting in Italian?

It is rude to exclude others from conversation - but it doesn't sound like you're doing that particularly. It's rude to spend 8 years with someone and not try to learn their language. It's racist to say 'you're in England so speak English'.

And it's completely spaffing an opportunity to not raise children bilingual, which is REALLY good for their brain development.

But also, how much choice did you give your partner on spending an indefinite period in lockdown with a woman she isn't related to?

Is she really the one for you? Are you both still making a conscious decision to be together or is it a habit and covid's highlighting your weaknesses as a couple?

Keep on chatting to your mum in Italian.
Your partner needs to wise up and learn Italian pronto, or re-think the relationship.
Have you discussed whether you want to have children together and whether they will be brought up speaking both languages?
This is a hugely important consideration that you shouldn’t ignore.
If your child can’t speak Italian, s/he will have a poor relationship with your side of the family.
Is that acceptable to you?

My DS learnt Japanese so he can join in the conversation when they chat to my DIL’s parents in Japan. Learning to speak, read and write Japanese is a bit trickier than Italian so if she can’t be bothered to make the effort, I’d let her go.

Normally I'd say she is being unreasonable but I think giving the lockdown I can understand that she's feeling isolated. I think it is a bit rude to have whole conversations when she is there in Italian if your mum is able to speak English fluently. Perhaps you can divide up your day and have an Italian hour or so when you and your mum can natter away and have some time just the two of you. I'd cut her some slack, through she needs to address the xenophobic undertones of her "while in England" attitude, but again I think this is excusable given the circumstances where she is lockdown staying in someone else's flat seperated from her family with no idea how much longer all this will go on for!

@Jellycatismyspiritanimal has it bang on here. I’m sorry OP, I love speaking and learning foreign languages and understand why Italian is important to you but your post comes across as “me,me,me” without a shred of compassion for your partner. These are not normal times. Try to accept that it is hard for her, show some empathy and see if you can find a sensible middle ground. Teach your partner some small common phrases that come up in general mum/child affectionate chat so she gets the gist of the conversations which, as you say, flow better for you and your Mum in Italian, but make sure that you are not descending into long unintelligible discussions which exclude her. And when all this is over, spend time with your Mum but without your partner- that is completely allowed.

I think it’s rude to hold a conversation that 1/3 of you don’t understand when you do all have a common language.

Ideally some effort would have been made to learn Italian but you do say that your partner is studying something else so adding learning another language to that may not be feasible.

If you’ve been together eight years and she hasn’t bothered learning even a little bit / hasn’t picked up some just by being around you.... I wonder if you are really suited?

The comment about being British now hence not speaking Italian is a red flag. Not racism, just an attitude problem that would make me question a person‘s character and suitability to be in a multicultural relationship. Most people who choose foreign partners see the other culture as an enrichment, not a source of conflict.

Oh it’s rude to exclude someone in this way and your partner must be feeling down and fed up.

I know from experience... my MIL does this when she wants to exclude me and have her son all to herself. I speak a couple of languages and can get by in my husbands language. But it takes a lot of effort and is often hard to catch up, especially when conversation happens quickly and at a high level. And his mum speaks English much better than I speak their language. As I’ve got older and have made less effort to please someone who actively tries not to be pleased, I’ve realised that in her eyes I’m someone who accompanies her son, rather than a person to grow a relationship with. I wonder if there is a similar struggle going on? How do they get on with out you? This will be the crux of it I think.

Mums and sons eh? Italian mums and sons too. Your poor fiancé 😂

What an opportunity to learn italian, I would love it. Something to do just now. If she thinks italian is too hard try welsh.

My friend fluent welsh, OH english, their children speak both fluently.

Encourage her to learn italian, tell your mum to help too.

It’s rude not to learn your partner’s language. Italian isn’t exactly difficult.

La lingua è una cosa culturale anche

Questo ! Mille volta !

Anche usare "Google Translate" è meglio di niente. O dovrebbe meglio di niente ?

learning by total immersion while on lockdown with your partner's mum, during a pandemic, is probably one of the less fun ways to learn.

@toomuchtooold

Shouldn’t have waited for 8 years then!

Op? Still awake?

Aiuto! La mia moglie mi sta seppellendo sotto il patio!

This is a phrase that OP's DP could try out!

You and your DP (both adults, I presume) are staying at your mum's flat, so your mum must be able to feel comfortable. My mother tongue is not English. I can't imagine being told by someone as to which language I should speak in my own house. If I were your mum, I would kick her, or both of you out. Having said that, I would make an effort to accommodate her if it's a short visit, but definitely not in the situation you described.

Your DP knows that you have two cultural heritage. Both of you may need to think if the relationship would work long term. Can you move out?

My DH’s friend moved to Denmark a few years ago to be with his now fiancée. He still can’t speak a word of Danish and complains whenever his Danish fiancée of probably six years speaks it in front of him because he feels excluded. How you can move to another country and have a child with a person from that country yet not learn the language is beyond me. He blames his dyslexia fwiw which sounds like a terrible excuse, my friend is dyslexic and she’s multi-lingual.

Anyway, your partner should make more effort to learn Italian imo.

Sounds like Italian is the OP's second language which she (?) only really uses with her mum. So,yes,she's fluent but no it's not her everyday language. English is.

I can't see why the partner therefore has to learn Italian since the OP's mum speaks English anyway. Not that the OP seems to have made much effort to teach her.

It might be different if the OP was a native Italian speaker and struggled with English,but this clearly isn't the case.

I can imagine how frustrated OP's partner feels, especially being made to feel guilty about it too.

If I were your mum, I would kick her, or both of you out

Yikes. Surely as the host you should ensure your guests feel comfortable? Especially if they are staying with you to keep you from loneliness in these corona times. I couldn’t imagine being so rude to a guest and future family member.

Wow I cannot understand the general response here. It's not polite to do this, it's down right rude and excluding. Why not speak Italian when your partner is not present and when she is, speak English? Imagine being locked up with people communicating totally 'past' you.

My dc has been with his Chinese friend and his parents, they all spoke Chinese and my dc was totally left out, felt excluded and ultimately you get the feel it is you they are talking about (the feel mind you, it's not necessarily the case), and it is boring like...

I do wonder about the responses here, I'm from EU, when brits come here to study on exchange and move into a dorm, they generally cba to learn the language (small one) instead they expect their kitchen, 20 people plus to speak english in order for them to be included. Hence I really don't get these responses.

OP I would love to be in your partner's situation.

What an amazing opportunity to learn Italian! I would jump at the chance.

But lady, can’t you see that it is exactly that same English centric attitude that OP‘s fiancée is displaying here?

They are not "deliberately " speaking Italian. And they're not doing it to exclude the partner. They are speaking it because it's what's natural to them. It's not easy to speak a different language to your mum all the time.
And it's not even all the time. Most of the time they actually speak English. And they're in the Italian speaking mum's house!

My DH encourages me to speak my native language with my children and to teach them. He understands the advantages of being fluent in another language which he is not.

When I am speaking in my native tongue with family and DH is present I will always make an effort to translate and include him as much as possible. He has never told me he feels it's rude. He understands it's a part of who I am.

But lady, can’t you see that it is exactly that same English centric attitude that OP‘s fiancée is displaying here?

@Fascinated I think that is Lady’s point- her experience of Brits, even ones who choose to study on exchanges abroad, is that they have no qualms about expecting people to speak English. So she is surprised that so many people on a U.K. forum are saying OP’s partner is BU.