Oxfordshire tŕansgender toolkit win

[user1465335180]

AIBU to say Congratulations to the 13 year old girl who has won her test case against Oxfordshire council. A brave young woman who did what a lot if adults are afraid to do

Dont hold your breath

I emailed them after the report about challoner was released . Anyone who doesnt know that they took advice from someone who verita deemed incompetent with regards to safe guarding after they hired their paedophile father to be their campaign manager (and has since married someone who was openly a " minor attracted person " on Twitter)

They stood by their decision. And now wont respond to me.

Amd disturbing that 10 percent of parents on the thread have voted that safeguarding is unnecessary..

Everything boils down to one simple question, a question that people are afraid to ask, let alone try to answer, because they will get screamed and shouted at by one or both sides of the debate. It's a shame because answering this question would solve almost all of the problems demonstrated by this thread.

Can a person change their gender?

If yes: treat a transgender person as being the same as a person born of their preferred gender in all instances.

If no: the whole argument goes away, everyone is treated as per their born gender and that's that.

Of course women's rights are as important as trans-women's rights. If you believe a person can change gender, trans-women are women. The underlying theme is that many people don't believe a person can change gender but are afraid to admit it. Time and again the argument that is used is "I'm not transphobic, but..."

You mean sex right?

Anyone can change their gender it's just a collection of behaviours, likes dislikes and preferences and appearance.

Sex on the other hand is a biological fact.

We are being asked to believe that a 6ft bloke with beard and massive muscles is a woman if they say they are one and can change for the swimming pool along side your daughters.

You either think that's ok or you dont.

I think you're talking about changing sex.
It seems to be accepted these days though not by me that gender is fluid, and that people can change gender - ie that gender is a mental thing.

It's their sex that cannot be changed. You cannot change the chromosomes you were born with, so regardless of whether you take testosterone to make you grow facial hair and have your breasts removed, or medication to make you look more female and have your penis removed, you are still biologically the same sex.

You can choose to appear as whatever sex you like to the outside world, but you cannot change your sex.

If I have learned just one thing from these discussions, it is that gender is a social construct but biological sex is an immutable fact.

I really don't care how people present themselves in terms of how they dress or what kind of films they like or what kind of toys they preferred to play with as a child or which name they wish to use.

What I care about is the preservation of women's rights and the safeguarding of children. That means keeping same sex spaces and same sex sports same sex - oh, and recording official statistics by biological sex where it is important to do so, such as matters of health and crime.

boys / men have a legal right to share the spaces where girls undress etc. even if those women object?

Actually, if the schools follow that horrible guidance, it makes it clear that make bodies boys that claim to be trans are MORE entitled to the female spaces, than the actual girls. The girls are to be told to use another space, such as a closet, and the school are also told to re-educate the girls.

Amd disturbing that 10 percent of parents on the thread have voted that safeguarding is unnecessary

I wouldn’t worry too much about that, as we’re watched by the TRAs and they do their best to influence, in a negative way, any discussions around safety and dignity for females.

makes it clear that *male bodied....

I can cheerfully change my gender any number of times in the time it takes to read this sentence.

What I can never do is that which is impossible, and it is and has always been impossible for anyone ever to change sex.

In the future, some manner of genetic engineering may make this possible. But not yet.

@SchiftingUp Your point would be clearer if you used the right words. No one can change sex. Anyone can changer gender but it's still meaningless stereotypes.

Actually, if the schools follow that horrible guidance, it makes it clear that make bodies boys that claim to be trans are MORE entitled to the female spaces, than the actual girls

I think people need to look at the message it sends too. It may be "ok" in school as far as the fact they at least know the person possibly even grew up with the person and there are staff around to help .

But when they use the train station toilets or the supermarket loos the next male bodied individual they encounter might not be "ok"

Even just 5 years ago we would have run out of their at top speed . But now, they are raised to believe that its perfectly normal and to ignore any internal warning as its bigoted.

And on top girls are always blamed for what happens to them . Always.

So we are putting them in dangerous situations and then blaming them for the consequences.

Is that what people really want for their children . Does that not matter at all to anyone?

Yes well done to her it's fabulous oh and do shut up @TwelfthOfNever you have no say in where OP posts!

Of course women's rights are as important as trans-women's rights. If you believe a person can change gender, trans-women are women. The underlying theme is that many people don't believe a person can change gender but are afraid to admit it.

As others have said, I think you mean sex. Although, so much effort has been put in to making people believe that sex equals gender. It suited their purpose in making the ‘we are women too!’ statement seem logical and righteous.

Time and again the argument that is used is "I'm not transphobic, but..."
And this has become very problematic for activists. Because recently there has been enough prominent people pointing out that to question the validity of such statements as transwomen are fully entitled to women’s rights is NOT transphobic. This has significantly reduced the power of this ill used word. And it is ill used, we have seen it has been used to shut down discussion and any questions. And these statements do not actually stand up when calmly discussed with independent studies, known and proven science and statistics....

in fact, if we just keep talking about periods, blood etc they will run for the hills
You can't do that, it's transphobic (along with just about everything else)

Still such a long way to go. Shropshire Council are standing by their dreadful guidance despite this clear sign from Oxfordshire that they know it’s illegal. We still need to roll this back in Shropshire, the City of London, Brighton and countless other English councils. It’s even further embedded in Scotland. And then there’s the Girl Guides, the YHA, the NHS, the BBC, the Civil Service, the CPS, the police, John Lewis, Marks and Spencer, Amnesty, Cancer Research...

Yes how can girls be the bigots when its boys who are so afraid of non conforming men/boys to the degree they kick them out the man box altogether

Nobody asked the boys either. No boys are running to the head teacher saying "Miss, we don't want Ralph using our toilets because he likes knitting". This is coming from adults, from above.

Precisely. The boys are literally being taught not to expect or allow a boy presenting as a girl into their space. This in turn breeds transphobia and homophobia. I What a shit show.

It is odd that people should want this hidden away in Feminism. It affects all of us. Odd also that so few newspapers are covering it. What are they afraid of ? That just makes me want to probe further - the fact that someone had decided we mustn’t discuss this.

I am waiting for my council to let me know if the toolkit is still going to be used. Someone I spoke to there did not realise that the CPS had withdrawn it. Perhaps the CPS did not communicate the withdrawal that has been reported in mainstream news.